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To: Bokababe

I’m not sure if I agree with this. Stopping people in their cars to check for citizenship opens up a whole can of worms for abusing 4th amendment rights. Just imagine that a cop stops someone who turns out to be a lawful citizen, then oops, I see a gun in that car. Do you have a conceal carry license?

The answer is to enforce the existing immigration laws on the books. To go after the employers with fines and stiff penalties when illegal workers are found at their workplaces. And to deport the illegals from there. No available work for illegal immigrants, no illegal immigrants.


15 posted on 04/26/2010 11:18:44 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
then oops, I see a gun in that car. Do you have a conceal carry license?

You don't need a concealed carry license to carry a gun unconcealed. But I tend to agree with your point, if that's what this law does.

19 posted on 04/26/2010 11:23:07 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

Good point. Also, denying illegals a place to live through prrof of citizenship for home ownership or rentals. There are all sorts of ways to get em out. But I still support Arizona on their move to get the illegals out.


23 posted on 04/26/2010 11:33:38 AM PDT by Halls (Jesus is my Lord and Savior)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
I’m not sure if I agree with this. Stopping people in their cars to check for citizenship opens up a whole can of worms for abusing 4th amendment rights.

I have the same concerns, as do many in this poll.

But I've asked several Mexican American friends the same question -- Would it bother you if were stopped based on looking Hispanic? The answer was no -- minor hassle, no different than dealing with airport security. One asked me if we'd ever been stopped in Mexico and identified as American -- the answer was yes! Last time we were in Baja, the government police (with automatic weapons and wearing ski masks) stopped us on the highway and asked for our passports.

My husband is often mistaken for being light Hispanic, he'd probably be subject to questioning in Arizona, too!

24 posted on 04/26/2010 11:36:59 AM PDT by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
“Stopping people in their cars to check for citizenship opens up a whole can of worms for abusing 4th amendment rights. “

No, it doesn't.

They stop people for DL checks and proof of insurance checks in my state. Have for some time. Got stopped in one. The car next to me was driven by an illegal. They didn't wave him through. ;) At the very least, he lost his car.

40 posted on 04/26/2010 12:07:55 PM PDT by Favor Center (Targets Up! Hold hard and favor center!)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden; Bokababe
I’m not sure if I agree with this. Stopping people in their cars to check for citizenship opens up a whole can of worms for abusing 4th amendment rights.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't jumping on this bandwagon.
57 posted on 04/26/2010 12:25:55 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Perhaps you do not understand the seriousness of the situation. In our area Every Day dozens of cars are driven down the road by illegals without a driver's license, without insurance, without any identification whatsoever. Every Day! How else are you going to check for that if not in real time? It is not ideal, but neither is declothing at an airport TSA portal, and this overall is significantly more serious than the ramifications from one World Trade massacre (consider statistics for illegal violent crime).

Arizona has chosen by its elected representation to submit to a process which is in fact carried out routinely for other suspicions, lane changing, open bottle, etc. And there were regularly roadblocks for DWI, License, etc.

We are being INVADED, how else can one put it?

If the Chinese Army, i.e. "illegal" invaders walked in enmasse and commandeered our schools and hospitals, but life still went on in some fashion for you and I, would we be complicit?

Of course there are many ways the federal Government could arrest the invasion, employers, border security, hospital reporting, etc. but it will not do it.

And it will not do it intentionally because Democrats want the votes!

How obvious is it?

67 posted on 04/26/2010 12:39:50 PM PDT by jnsun (The Left: the need to manipulate others because of nothing productive to offer.)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

“Do you have a conceal carry license?”

I don’t know what state your from, but I have been stopped and the first question is; Are you carrying? It’s all on the computer from your license number before they approach your car.


87 posted on 04/26/2010 1:04:16 PM PDT by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

“The answer is to enforce the existing immigration laws on the books.”

You need to read the federal law that is already on the books... The AZ law just copies it for the most part.


91 posted on 04/26/2010 1:10:56 PM PDT by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
This is the key to get illegals to go home go after there employer with BIG BIG fines first offense 2nd. offense lost of business license's. End of story. And stop the illegals and send them home also very soon most would go home law could get rid of rest. Those who have come by legal means want them gone also something MSM will not tell us even those from Mexico want illegals gone.
101 posted on 04/26/2010 1:48:24 PM PDT by ducks1944 (GOD Bless the USA .)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

Police in many states if not nationwide already use “reasonable suspicion” in the daily course of enforcing many laws- ranging from DWI to murder investigations. The only thing different about this law is the law that will be enforced. Many talking heads seem to think the “reasonable suspicion” wording is what will get this law overturned. If so then many incarcerated people in Arizona and elsewhere will have to be turned loose as that legal term was used to stop and question them. It usually goes like this...person driving is weaving all over the road- crossing center line once is enough though- bang- reasonable suspicion for traffic stop for DWI and other posible offenses- then officer “checks papers” e.g. driver’s license, insurance, registration- at that point determines whether or not to administer field sobriety test or breath test for alcohol- if subject fails tests then said officer has reached “probable cause” for arrest. Remember it all started with “reasonable suspicion” and your fear about the gun being found in car- already happens and legal under the law for one scenerio to lead to another issue.

I can see individual cases overturned due to officer not meeting the legal standard of reasonable suspicion in that case. That already happens with other law enforcement of course. I don’t see the law itself being overturned, at least not on that issue.

Don’t swallow the lies the media and liberals are selling- this part of the law at least is no different than the way things are done now.


112 posted on 04/26/2010 2:46:19 PM PDT by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

“Just imagine that a cop stops someone who turns out to be a lawful citizen, then oops, I see a gun in that car. Do you have a conceal carry license?”

Not a problem. Open carry without a license is lawful in Arizona. Concealed carry without a special license soon will be.

And if you do anything wrong while on public roads, the police already have the right to search for further
evidence of lawbreaking.


153 posted on 04/26/2010 6:03:37 PM PDT by spaced
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