Retired Army general: Lt. Col. Lakin has 'valid point'

World Net Daily ^ | April 23, 2010 | Chelsea Schilling

[Smokeyblue]

A retired Army general and national security policy expert says Lt. Col. Terry Lakin has "a valid point" and should use his "right to discovery" to force the Obama administration to produce proof of his natural-born citizenship status.

In an interview with Evil Conservative Radio, Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely said, "I think many in the military – and many out of the military – question the natural-birth status of Barack Obama. … I'm not convinced that he is [a natural-born citizen]."

Vallely, CEO of Stand Up America U.S., graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and was commissioned in the Army in 1961, serving 32 years.

He said he inspected his own long-form birth certificate, and it contains a doctor's name, date and location of birth.

"But he's never been able to produce that," he said of Obama. "His unwillingness to do it also concerns me. I think Lt. Col. Lakin has a valid point. … He refuses to produce a birth certificate that states the witnessing of the birth, the date and who is the doctor. We don't know why he won't come out with that."

[ducdriver]

...and the health care law null and void.

[El Gato]

While that's an interesting interpretation, no court in the United States is ever going agree with you

One already has in 1875. The Surpeme Court as a matter of fact:

Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 1875

The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents.

Note the second group, "born within the jurisdiction without referance to the citizenship of their parents" are refered to as "citizens", not as natural born citizens, as are those born in the jurisdictoin of parents who are citizens themselves.

[El Gato]

I got my Illinois drivers license by showing a similar electronic verified copy of my birth certificate.

Bet yours had a visible, and "feel-able" raised seal. Do you see one of those in the certification image filed on Daily KOS (the same one that was used above to make that animation.)

[shadowland]

“John McCain’s father, John S. McCain Jr., was a US Naval officer serving in the Panama Canal Zone. His mother is Roberta Wright. Both were American citizens.

McCain gets his citizenship via the Immigration and Nationality Act — “by statute.”...”

That is just simply irrational. There is no way any court is going to interpret the Constitution so that an officer in service and his American citizen wife, having a child out of state, are going to have that child denied all due rights out of a circumstance involving that officers coincidental service in the US Armed forces. Don’t you see how low that is?

[editor-surveyor]

Actually, his birthcirtificate and place of birth are irrelevent to the question.

He is not a Natural Born citizen because his father was not a citizen. End of argument.

.

[rxsid]

"...and the health care law null and void."

Almost certainly, no doubt. After-all...

How can a usurper command our armed forces, or sign any bill into law (including the health care monstrosity), or sign any treaty with a foreign country, or make any judicial nominations????

Yes, he eligibility issue is a MASSIVE big deal.

[editor-surveyor]

“It says pretty clearly that he was born in the United States.”

No, actually it doesn’t and its purpose is not to prove citizenship.

It’s not relevant. The constitution requires something he cannot be: a Natural Born citizen. That requires that both parents had to be citizens at the time of his birth. His father was never naturalized, so he cannot be president, and he is not president.

This is definitely what is called a Constitutional Crisis.
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[shadowland]

” the founders relied upon MANY sources to guide them in the framing and governing of this new and unique country.”

I completely agree. Montesquieu’s ‘Spirit of the Laws’.. being one of the major influences. I even have read that the constitutional forms of the Iroquois Confederation were consulted. My only demur was that I doubted you could bring Vattel into court as precedent. In fact it looks like there is very little precedent to work with at all. At least with Blackstone you have someone who is widely accepted as an authority on law and legal terminology in the time frame discussed, circa 1788.

[editor-surveyor]

“While that’s an interesting interpretation, no court in the United States is ever going agree with you.”

.
The US Supreme Court has agreed with that point four times.
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[Kleon]

Bet yours had a visible, and "feel-able" raised seal. Do you see one of those in the certification image filed on Daily KOS (the same one that was used above to make that animation.)

The seal is on the back, and they scanned the front.

[El Gato]

It’s actually not a “slam dunk.” Puerto Rico also is a territorial possession

But it's status is different than Hawaii or Alaska's were when they were territories.

They were " annexed as a part of the territory of the United States and subject to the sovereign dominion thereof." They like the other states, and the territories they were formed from were "incorporated territories". Puerto Rico was at first an "unincorporated territory", and has been a "Estado Libre Asociado" (Free Associated State) or commonwealth since 1952. But it's still not an "incorporated territory".

At least one VP was born in a territory before it became a state. Charles Curtis of Kansas, born on January 25, 1860, over a year before Kansas became a state on January 29, 1861, was Herbert Hoover's Vice President. He was also "native American", being 1/8th each of Kansa Indian, of Osage Indian, of Potawatomi Indian, and 1/8th French. His father was "an American" of English ancestry.

[Steve Van Doorn]

”I’m sorry, but this is making freepers look foolish.”

It was NPR and AP news that started it then Clintons people picked it up from there. Freepers are late comers: What I would like to know is who told NPR and AP news he was born in Kenya?
AP News stating Obama was born in Kenya in 2004
NPR stating Obama was born in Kenya in 2008

[editor-surveyor]

.
http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/18/4-supreme-court-cases-define-natural-born-citizen/

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[SatinDoll]

He hasn’t shown anything, not even a COLB.

Others have posted forgeries on the internet - Hawaii’s Department of Health and Hawaii’s AG have refused to certify those COLBs as authentic.

[patlin]

Yes, what is interesting is that ALL HI would have to do is verify that there is an index record or receipt dated June 2007 for a certified copy of ‘0’s COLB, but as of yet they refuse to do so. WHY IS THAT?

[SatinDoll]

The Congress has the sole power, from the U.S. Constitution, to remove a sitting president. Congress delegated it’s power, by Quo Warranto, to remove a usurper from the Presidency to the District Court of Washington D.C.

To file a lawsuit against the President of the United States via Quo Warranto one must have standing.

To have standing one must prove having been hurt by actions of this President. For example, illegally losing a Chrysler dealership, and thus your livelihood, would provide standing to sue.

This lawsuit would be interesting in that the President MUST prove that he had the authority to do the deed. Those filing the lawsuit only have to prove they’ve been grievously harmed.

[Steve Van Doorn]

"When did he ever claim he was born in 1957?"

http://www.myspace.com/barackobama

[El Gato]

Not really, but this isn't even what Col. Terry Lakin is arguing.

He may be, we really don't know yet for certain. He can argue both ways. If it's found that Obama was born outside the US, then there is no need for a fresh ruling, since he would clearly not be a citizen at all. If born in the US, then a determination of the orginally understood meaning of "Natural Born Citizen" would be needed. No federal court has ruled on that when it matters, that is in a Presidential, or Vice Presidential eligibility case.

[rxsid]

For this very specific issue:

In order to use Blackstone in a court of law as being the source for the definition of "Natural Born Citizen" you would have to show:
- somehow that all of the below to be not true, but you would also have to show
- somehow that the framers really intended for a Natural Born Citizen of a Constitutional Republic to be the same thing as a Natural Born Subject of a crown. Otherwise, the definition for NB Subject could not be applied to NB Citizen (if they aren't equal in meaning).

Or

In order to use Vattel in a court of law as being the source for the definition of "Natural Born Citizen" you would show that:
- Vattel defined who the natural (born) citizens were
- that founder Ramsay reaffirmed Vattel's definition for NBC in his dissertation on citizenship in 1789
- that the (repealed) Naturalization Act of 1790 tried to extend that definition to those born overseas
- that 5 early SCOTUS cases reaffirm Vattel's definition for NBC in their dicta
- that the author of the 14th Amendment reaffirmed Vattel's definition
- and that non binding Senate resolution (to which Obama agreed) relied upon the Naturalization Act of 1790 for their understanding of the term...born to citizen parentS.

It's clear that in the American experience, it's always been about citizen parentS (two) and born in country (with the one exception of the repealed Naturalization Act of 1790).

[SatinDoll]

It may very well be that there are no vital records for Barak Hussein Obama II. Thus there would be no index data.

That said, there may very well be index data under another name, or names, for the same person. We just don’t know.

Hawaii is refusing to provide index data information on names associated with Obama: Obama, Soetoro, Sutoro, Dunham, and others. DOH is required by law to make index data available to the public - after all, the public is paying for it! Hawaii is in violation of its own open records law.

For those not knowing what index data is, it is similiar to index cards in a library and is used by the department to track and maintain vital records. The data consists of three fields: name, type of vital record, date. Nothing more.