Retired Army general: Lt. Col. Lakin has 'valid point'

World Net Daily ^ | April 23, 2010 | Chelsea Schilling

[rxsid]

Again, Vattel wasn't French. He was Swiss.

Using Blackstone, Obama permanently owes allegiance to the crown.

Trying to equate a citizen to a subject and vice versa is more than a stretch.

By the way, Vattel says those born in the Armies are considered born in the country, since they never left it's jurisdiction. I'm sure El Gato can provide the chapter if need be.

No need at all to try and make citizen and subject equals, thus allowing for Blackstone's definition to be the source.

[rxsid]

"How can you penalize 2 USA Citizen for serving their country?”

My whole point was that could not have been the intent of the founders."

---------------------------------------------------

It wasn't their intent. And, Vattel accounts for that situation. See here.

[hoosiermama]

Have either of you sent this background information to FOX or Beck or Hannity or Megan K ?

Time to educate the masses.

Put it all in a book form and go on a book promotion circuit.

[Beckwith]

If, during 1961 or 1962 (for example), the US was at war with Great Britain, the US government could have interned (or at the very least monitored) Barry as a subject of an enemy power.

That is very intersting.

Unfortunately, Obama is now turning the United States government into an enemy power.

[Cboldt]

-- If, during 1961 or 1962 (for example), the US was at war with Great Britain, the US government could have interned (or at the very least monitored) Barry as a subject of an enemy power. --

I don't know how dual citizenship is handled in wartime. Does the holder become internally conflicted?

But seriously, I presume he could have been conscripted by the Brits, should his father have maintained connection with the family and so forth. "At birth," quite a bit of future is yet to unfold. But "at birth," he had the natural, unquestionable right to take British citizenship, without undergoing any naturalization process.

[Beckwith]

You will notice the paucity of sources and/or links in Rogers' posts -- they are nothing but his opinion -- and you know what they say about opinions. The guy evidently thinks he's a genius, and the source of all knowledge.

Whadda putz!

[shadowland]

“By the way, Vattel says those born in the Armies are considered born in the country, since they never left it’s jurisdiction.”

That clears that issue with McCain up. Still..when the Constitution was finally ratified, it did not change the system of laws that existed in the states that had their precedence in common law. We still in a sense (except for Louisiana) live under that system. If you are going to cite law in the courts of America, you can still cite Blackstone as precedence.... Vattel it seems would be mere reference..but here I’m out of my depth..but considering all the contortions I’ve seen over these past two years I’m not feeling very alone. Thank you for the polite and interesting conversation.

[rxsid]

"Have either of you sent this background information to FOX or Beck or Hannity or Megan K ?

Time to educate the masses.

Put it all in a book form and go on a book promotion circuit."

I've tried, to no avail. The ones screening the emails have their marching orders. I'm fully confident that such an email (or even a written mailed note) would quickly find it's way in the trash. Virtual or not.

In the beginning of this mess, NOBODY in any position of power to do anything about this or speak out about it / investigate it wanted to be label a racist or a this-ist or a that-ist. Now, of course, the negative term used is "birther." There was a lot of fear in 2008/2009 about this issue. But the tides may indeed be turning as people are less afraid of being "labeled" something. Obviously, this issue has not only NOT gone away but it has grown as more people awaken to the mere fact that Barry won't even show a copy of his original long form (if it even exists). Even people who aren't educated on this issue of Natural Born citizen can clearly see that something is seriously wrong with that. It's a friggin birth certificate that he refuses to show!

[autumnraine]

The biggest thing with me and this case is that at the very least, as much information as recruits have to provide to enlist... they will see the CiC flipping them off in presenting his own eligibility.

Whether or not Lt. Lakin is court martialed isn’t going to be as big a deal as Obama actually going through with a court martial and will make other officers question it as well. “Hey, why WON’T you produce it?”

[autumnraine]

Yes, but at least he would be “presenting” it to an official and not two college smoes at a website like he did with factcheck.org.

[rxsid]

b.t.w I had part 2 of your suggestion, already in the posting...

"Obama, himself, was a signatory of that resolution knowing full well (no doubt) the requirement has always been about 2 citizen parents."

Thanks again, though, for reminding me about G.W. overdue book - The Law of Nations!

Yet more evidence tying in the importance of Vattel with the founders (obviously, though, not 100% exclusive as some suggest in rebuttal).

[bert]

.......Orders were issued by others and not him.....

But...they were acting on his orders. If he is not valid CIC, the Chain of Command is broken

[rxsid]

"-- If, during 1961 or 1962 (for example), the US was at war with Great Britain, the US government could have interned (or at the very least monitored) Barry as a subject of an enemy power. --

I don't know how dual citizenship is handled in wartime. Does the holder become internally conflicted?

But seriously, I presume he could have been conscripted by the Brits, should his father have maintained connection with the family and so forth. "At birth," quite a bit of future is yet to unfold. But "at birth," he had the natural, unquestionable right to take British citizenship, without undergoing any naturalization process.

---------------------------------------------------

Therein lies a major part of the issue. The framers clearly didn't intend for someone (post grandfather clause) that had any nationality (& thus allegiance due and owed) conflicts to become the President and Commander in Chief of the armed forces. Obviously, this presents a serious "conflict" of interest.

[little jeremiah]

Repeating untruths over and over again does not magically turn them into fact.

[Beckwith]

When I first cam on this forum, there was an entity called the Zot Kitty.

Trolls were identified, harassed and zotted!

No longer. The operators of this site have let the Obots have free rein. It's their site. They have every right.

But now it's infested with the enemy. I wonder what changed?

[BP2]

> Should have included you, here, as the screen shot comes from your work.

No worries. Attribution matters not to me as much as Contribution.
We're all on the same team — working to correct the Left's disinformation about Obama —
broadcasting the TRUTH to as many people as possible who are still capable of critical thought.

Exposing the TRUTH about Obama’s treasonous deception to the American people is paramount.

And when the TRUTH does come out in the light of day, there will certainly be a partisan
minority who are sadly "lost causes" and won't believe it or wouldn't care anyway because
their moral compass is chiefly driven by Obama's Progressive agenda and/or his skin color.

Just as the MSM still believes in Global Warming after the East Anglia emails were exposed,
many Obama fans will still stand by their man NO MATTER WHAT, as they're too vested in his success.

They can't be led to the TRUTH. So we will simply speak to those who are capable of seeing
that upholding the Constitution is far more important than the crazed idolatry of any one man.

[danamco]

Here it says 52 years old, hmmm???

http://www.myspace.com/barackobama

[Beckwith]

That clears that issue with McCain up.

A statutory citizen (bestowed by man's pen) can never be a "natural born" citizen (bestowed by God/nature).

Statutory citizenship means that a person's citizenship requires a law or laws to define it. A citizen via statute is constitutionally ineligible to serve as Commander-in-Chief.

John Sidney McCain III was born at the Colon Hospital, located at Avenida Melendez and 2nd Street, Manzanillo Island, City of Colon, Republic of Panama. The time of birth on the birth certificate issued by Panama Railroad Company (that owned the Colon Hospital) was 5:25 PM and the day and date of birth was Saturday, August 29, 1936.

John McCain's father, John S. McCain Jr., was a US Naval officer serving in the Panama Canal Zone. His mother is Roberta Wright. Both were American citizens.

McCain gets his citizenship via the Immigration and Nationality Act -- "by statute."

Sec. 301. [8 U.S.C. 1401] The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

Sec. 303. [8 U.S.C. 1403] Persons born in the Canal Zone or the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904

(b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

This case fails the test of jus soli -- NOT born in the USA
This case meets the test of jus sanguinis -- parents are US citizens
This person has "dual citizenship" via his birthplace, is NOT a "natural born" citizen, and is NOT eligible to serve as Commander-in-Chief.

[etraveler13]

Agreed. Its speculation with LOTS of circumstantial evidence, but...without actual discovery, that is all it is at this point.

[Hilda]

A COLB that looked very much like that is EXACTLY what I used to get my driver’s license. The COLB itself says, “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding” and cites the law that states that. On the bottom. Right there in your image.

I’m sorry, but this is making freepers look foolish.