Army Report: GIs Outgunned in Afghanistan

Politics Daily ^ | 04/2/10 | David Wood

[R. Scott]

.223 varmit round vs .308 mankiller. Not much of a contest.

[xkaydet65]

This is very old info, about 20 years, but I taught with a guy who’d served two hitches as an Lt in 2nd Rangers. He’d regale me with stories about where he’d been and what he’d done. I asked him once about the M14. He loved the weapon and told me that they were being reserved for future use where their positive attributes, long range and that Garand action that fires in peanut butter, would be useful. He specifically mentioned desert and mountain environments. That was 20+ yrs ago so who knows now.

[Chode]

.308 there is NO substitute...

[Last Dakotan]

Hell, I could take any off the shelf Remington 700 tactical and put a Leupold on in and be out the door for 2 grand and shoot the wings off a bumblebee at 500 yards.

I dropped a mule buck at 250 yards on the buttes of western North Dakota last fall. The tool at hand was a Ruger M77 Hawkeye chambered in .270 (basically a necked down .30-06 round) and Leopold glass. The first round passed under the deer, the second one trashed both lungs and smashed a rib while blowing a hole out the other side.

I'd call the combination cheap and lethal to 300+ yards.

[neverdem]

Thanks for the link!

[Carry_Okie]

If this is true, it took EIGHT years to figure it out? I've never heard guys like Duncan Hunter complaining about it. One would think that they would have done so if this was such a critical problem.

In any case, it points out the classic US Military problem of emphasizing bells and whistles at the expense of basic equipment.

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

I’m trying to imagine the accuracy of an AK-47 at 500+ meters...do the bad guys ever hit anything?

I've got an SKS, whhich shoots the same 7.62X39 mm round as an AK, and as far as accuracy goes, it's good for about 100-150 yards. After that, the bullet loses energy fast and drops like a rock.

[mcshot]

I read during the Klinton Admin that he gave 54,000 M-14s to the Balkans. Just what we need to face.

[moovova]

Didn’t Clinton destroy 100,000 M14s or some huge amount?

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

$8000 for a sniper rifle? Hell, I could take any off the shelf Remington 700 tactical and put a Leupold on in and be out the door for 2 grand and shoot the wings off a bumblebee at 500 yards.

That's exactly what Carlos Hathcock (RIP) did in Vietnam.

[lapsus calami]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Big_Harry]

I just saw a picture of the “new” M-14 in full tactical dress that is being issued to SOPs in Afghanistan. There is also a new version of the classic FN-FAL battle rifle in 7.62 NATO that is being built for that theatre by FN. You can buy a good bolt action, 1000+ yard sniper rifle in the .338 Lapua for under $1500 so where is the $4000 figure coming from?

[Psalm 73]

"Most likely new production line would need to be created to begin manufacturing them again."

I thought Springfield Armory still produced new M-14s for the DoD?

[maine-iac7]

U.S. troops in Afghanistan are more often attacked from high ground

From the first fight between two factions on earth, the first rule has always been:Control the high ground.

And yet, in Afghanistan, our troops have consistently been made to cobble together tiny firebases at the bottom of fishbowl with the tree studded hills rising 380 around them. They have been rendered fish in a barrel for the Taliban. And they have paid the highest price for it.

if you give a fig about our troops and care enough to bestir yourselves - maybe give up a night of Idol or Survivor, make it a point to see this film: "RESTREPO"

Not a 'memoir". Not a novel. This movie is unique. Gut wrenching, no 'message', no agenda, no Hollywood. Just WAR.

This movie puts YOU, the audience, 'boots on the ground' with a small platoon fighting in Afghanistan in the "most dangerous place on earth" - the mountains and valleys of the high Hindu Kush in north eastern Afghanistan.

You are there, with the now famous Battle Company of the 173rd AIRBORNE, 2-503d, during their 15 months - and over 1,000 firefights - deployment in 2007-08.

War journalist Sebastian Junger (wrote "Perfect Storm", and award winning War videographer, Tim Hetherington, spent a year on the ground with Battle company. They become, essentially, part of the platoon - not just "embeds" who spend a few days with troops and then retreat to safety to tell what it's all about.

Together, they made the movie "Restrepo" - (named after the first soldier lost in that deployment - but far from the last) a tiny, remote outpost in the infamous Korengal Valley - no water, no heat, a two hour hike over treacherous, Taliban, mountain passes from the next nearest forces, this little band of warriors fought and died - and won, over inhuman odds.

To be sure Hollywood would not have any influence over the movie, Junger and Hetherington submitted it the the Sundance Film Festival. Out of over 800 documentary entries, only a handful were selected. Amid rave reviews, "Restrepo" went on to win the top award: Grand Jury Award.

Broadcast rights have been bought by National Geographic - they will air it in Nov. Theatrical rights have been purchased by Nat'l Geo's theater branch and will be shown in theaters across the country this summer. The "stars" are the soldiers, themselves, in real time. No script. You are there when the attacks come. You are there in the midst of the firefights. This is how is goes down - real soldiers, real battles, real tragedy and triumph - as it happens.

This is a movie with no agenda, no politics. "Restrepo" is getting amazed and rave reviews.

If you give a fig about what our troops are going through, if you really want to know what it's about- without it being filtered through the brass, you will not miss this movie. (Junger's companion book, "WAR", comes our mid-May and can be pre-orderd on Amazon."

the trailor:

http://www.restrepothemovie.com/

WAtch for it. Sebastian and Tim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnKwmIYKKxY

one of many reviews - http://www.movieline.com/2010/01/so-tell-me-about-restrepo-a-movieline-faq.php

Do YOU support our troops? See the movie.

LIVE LINKS NEXT POST - SHOULD ANYONE CARE...

(I realize there's nothing here about OJ or Britany or Tiger - so sorry. If there were, this would garner hundreds of posts - this is just about our troops = and on FR, that means only a few replies. But this is for the handful who care.)

[maine-iac7]

live links per the above post -

the movie trailor

http://www.restrepothemovie.com/

WAtch for it.

Sebastian and Tim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnKwmIYKKxY

one of many reviews -

http://www.movieline.com/2010/01/so-tell-me-about-restrepo-a-movieline-faq.php

[barb-tex]

Of course we had to feed the M14’s to Captain Crunch, else they might fall into the hands of EVIL NRA members, What can we expect when we adopt a round designed to kill Prairie dogs.
barbra ann

[Ronaldus Magnus]

Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, was once accidentally shot in the chest with an M855 round from a light machine gun; rather than being killed, he walked out of the hospital several days later.

Learning about this incident for the first time, I don't know whether my opinion has changed more in now having a greater respect for Gen. Petraeus or a lesser respect for the 5.56x45.

As battalion commander of the Iron Rakkasans, he suffered one of the more dramatic incidents in his career when, in 1991, he was accidentally shot in the chest during a live-fire exercise when a soldier tripped and his rifle discharged. He was taken to Vanderbilt University Medical Center, Nashville, Tennessee, where he was operated on by future U.S. Senator Bill Frist. The hospital released him early after he did fifty push ups without resting, just a few days after the accident.

[moovova]

Then there’s the new Rock River Arms 308’s:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=257

The 26” barrel varmint model is $1505, so I’m sure the government would be confortable paying $3000 per gun. There’s a savings of $5000 per gun righ there.

Wish I had one...

[Little Bill]

I did my first tour in Viet Nam with the M-14 and the Second with the M-16. I liked the M-14 and it was natural to shoot, brought up on an 03 Springfield. It did not fit into the spray and pray ideas of the time and was heavy.

The troops carry a lot of useless weight, what ever happened to Solder Selection, the average load of an Infantry man for at least the last 2000 years has been 60 pounds.

[matthew fuller]

"Are there any Western bloc assault rifles (i.e. not machine guns) that fire the 7.26x52, besides the M14? "

1.Kimber 84M LPT, $1315

2.Steyr Arms SS69 PII, $1899

3.Ruger Hawkeye Tactical, $1172

All capable of repetitive less than MOA groups. Steyr hencho in Austria.

All tested this mo in Guntests Magazine.