Vatican fights to distance Pope from abuse scandals

Breitbart/AFP ^ | Mar 13, 2010

[presidio9]

The Vatican on Saturday fought attempts to link Pope Benedict XVI to child sex abuse in a counteroffensive against the widening paedophilia scandals. "It is clearly evident that in the past few days there are some who have sought -- with a dogged focus on Regensburg and Munich -- elements to personally implicate the Holy Father in questions of abuse," spokesman Federico Lombardi said.

"It is clear that these efforts have failed," he said on Radio Vatican.

On Friday, the pope's former diocese of Munich confirmed a report that when he was an archbishop in 1980, he approved housing for a priest who was accused of forcing an 11-year-old boy to perform oral sex.

Six years later, the priest was given a suspended prison sentence for child sex offences. The archdiocese said the priest in question still works in Bavaria, with no known repeat violations.

The disclosure added to a growing scandal in Germany that has already come close to Pope Benedict's brother Georg Ratzinger, a former choirmaster.

The first revelations emerged in January when an elite Jesuit school in Berlin admitted systematic sexual abuse of pupils by two priests in the 1970s and 1980s.

Among other boarding schools implicated is one attached to the Domspatzen ("Cathedral Sparrows"), Regensburg cathedral's thousand-year-old choir which was run for 30 years by the pope's older brother Ratzinger, who is now 86.

Earlier this week, Ratzinger said the alleged sexual abuse in the 1950s and 60s -- which was before his time -- was "never discussed".

However, in the latest revelations, former choirboy Thomas Mayer told German magazine Der Spiegel he had been raped by older members of the choir and that Ratzinger had violent fits of outrage during rehearsals.

"Ratzinger, I saw him extremely angry and irascible during rehearsals,"

[wideawake]

The victims weren’t the ones who were to be ashamed.

Of course they have no reason to be ashamed. But they usually are deeply ashamed, because that's what predators do to their victims - make them feel it's their own fault.

That's the psychology of it.

[marajade]

You are the one making the claims, you provide the link.

[marajade]

well thankfully they are getting the legal help they deserve and getting the settlements they are getting to gt the help they need

[wideawake]

So in essence your claim is that there were two types of forms that could been reported to Ratzinger in 81

I doubt it was a form - I'm sure it was a letter saying: "I'm recommending hospitalization for this troubled priest who's having a breakdown, please give me authorization to book him a hospital stay."

So we can expect the Vatican to produce the documents?

The documents are apparently out there already.

What's the makeup of this court?

Generally a panel of three or more canon lawyers - it's the usual kind of legal setup under the European code system. There is one judge, or in certain cases more than one, who reviews all the documents, evidence and pleadings and adjudicates. Similar in many ways to the way cases are argued before the Supreme Court.

I assume the question you're getting to is whether there is any external supervision by non-Church authorities. The answer is no.

[Chickensoup]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/26/asylum-fast-tracked-women-refugees

http://www.asiantribune.com/child-abuse-sri-lanka-buddhist-monks

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=476&Itemid=34

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3175846.stm

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-5107207.html

http://forums.phayul.com/index.php?showtopic=8785

[Quix]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . .

Sigh.

[wmfights]

Your entire post avoids the central question: what if all you have is a sneaking suspicion without a shred of hard evidence?

You ask.

That's all there is in most cases of abuse.

Not true. There are patterns. There are changes in the victim.

You say: "think of the victim" - when the whole point is that you are not sure there even is a victim.

And now because everyone was so worried about the perpetrators there are more victims then you can count.

[Quix]

NO DOUBT.

Praise God for your FIL’s Salvation.

[wmfights]

Amen

He was always a good and honorable man which makes it that much sweeter.

[Quix]

Personally, I could justify some reasonable, relatively brief delay in order to investigate in-house at least in a preliminary way.

However, when it became clear that it was probable that a crime had been committed, then officials ought to have been called in, imho.

[Quix]

I work hard to avoid blackwashing any group other than satanists, liberals, globalists, communists, socialists and the like.

Every group has currs and knaves of one degree or another.

Roman Catholics et al who earnestly endeavor to put God first and foremost in their lives have my respect and admiration.

[Quix]

Short of reading the documents myself, I’ll take your word for it.

Thanks.

[wmfights]

Personally, I could justify some reasonable, relatively brief delay in order to investigate in-house at least in a preliminary way.

I think this is the mistake people make, assuming they can figure out if there's something to it or not. At the slightest indication that somethings wrong call the cops, get people investigating who have seen it all and know what to look for. Wideawake is right a lot of these people have no sense of right or wrong and can conceal just about anything.

[Quix]

INDEED.

[Quix]

Worthy points.

However, imho, none of them justify as much . . . .

delay . . . and as much of a shell game with the perps as seems to have occurred.

[Quix]

We are talking about a whole spectrum of behavior and claims and accusations here.

imho . . . silly accusations that turn out to be perverse joking by adolescents of whatever chronological age can likely be determined by experienced elder leaders in-house.

In most cases, these things are not super time-sensitive. A few days to check out some basic facts is usually tolerable.

There are a number of sorts of things in this ball park that experienced police & detectives would laugh at as a waste of their time.

I’m certainly NOT suggesting that probable crimes be ignored etc. Timely reporting of them is fitting. I just don’t think that 100% of ALL accusations warrant instant reporting.

[wideawake]

I think this is the mistake people make, assuming they can figure out if there's something to it or not.

Thank you, that was exactly my point.

A normal person, when feeling a suspicion, will furtively try to see what they can figure out on their own without involving the authorities and potentially embarrassing themselves with false accusations. They want to be sure.

And a predator, who is keenly sensitive to a normal person's rather clumsy amateur surveillance, will likely counter with a very subtly-played charade to allay that person's suspicions - to prevent them from ever becoming 100% sure.

After all, they've been carefully watching and toying with other people for years.

[wideawake]

What has happened can never be justified.

My point is that much of this went undiscovered not because of malicious cooperation with the predators, but because of timidity and fear of consequences if one was wrong.

[Quix]

I wouldn’t doubt

that

that

was an explanation for whatever significant percentage of the cases.

I don’t believe it sufficiently explains the whole.

[wideawake]

Since you were interested in the statistics I cited, here's another important data point:

Almost one out of every three claims of abuse made to diocesan officials were made against the same group of 149 priests.

Of that group, a significant number - perhaps half - can be traced to a single Irish seminary.

That same seminary's graduates are deeply implicated in the scandal in the Irish Church.

In other words, the worst predators were apparently a group of individuals who knew each other well and traveled in a pack from one country to another.