Posted on 02/08/2010 10:21:02 PM PST by neverdem
Researchers are warning that popular herbs and supplements, including St. John’s wort and even garlic and ginger, do not mix well with common heart drugs and can also be dangerous for patients taking statins, blood thinners and blood pressure medications.
St. John’s wort raises blood pressure and heart rate, and garlic and ginger increase the risk of bleeding in patients on blood thinners, the researchers said. Even grapefruit juice can be risky, increasing the effects of calcium-channel blockers and statins, they said.
“This is not new research, but there is a trend toward more and more use of these compounds, and patients often don’t discuss with their doctors the compounds they are using on their own,” said Dr. Arshad Jahangir, senior author of a paper being published in Tuesday’s issue of The Journal of the American College of Cardiology.
The paper includes a list of more than two dozen herbal products that patients should approach with caution, as well as a list of common drug-herb interactions. Among the products listed are ginkgo biloba, ginseng and echinacea, as well as some surprises like soy milk and green tea — both of which can decrease the effectiveness of warfarin — and even aloe vera and licorice...
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Reallllllly?
Is that clear to you?
Well, duh!
Do I have to explain to you why the general rule you are attempting to establish has no basis in fact and is not supported by any evidence?
First you will have to explain what general rule it is that you think I tried to establish.
Is grapefruit juice equally as toxic as warfarin or any other compound metabolized by that same CYP enzyme? Of course not.
Nooooooo kidding?
So there goes the general rule you were hoping to illogically establish.
LSD is not for amateurs. Try some some green tea.
“When garlic, ginger and grapefruit juice are listed as contraindicated that’s a pretty clear picture of how dangerous and unpredictable the pharmaceutical in question is.” TigersEye
Your only reply to me calling this statement “hogwash” was to wave around warfarin. Trying therefore to establish that if ONE toxic compound was contraindicated with grapefruit juice, then ANY compound contraindicated with grapefruit juice must therefore be equally as toxic.
That is as moronic as thinking taking Tiger testicles will make you more of a man, and based upon the same “logic”.
we’re all gonna die /s
I have said the same if not in the exact words here many times. It all comes down to dosage.
I am by no means a nut about health - I'm having my 2nd Seven & 7 right now and may enjoy a pipe- but control, moderation and balance, just a few things that will take you far.
“Rhubarb can kill ya, I hear!”
Certainly the leaves can, if you chow down on enough of them. ;-)
Read the rest of my posts where I clarify my point and it will be obvious that I wasn’t trying to “establish a general rule” as you call it. I’m sorry, I don’t have an ounce of patience for people who jump on the first thing they read and make huge assumptions about the intent without asking for clarification. Especially when it already exists further on. Especially when they come right out of the gate with a petulant and adolescent insult.
I’m no health nut either. I just decided I wanted to know a bit about edible and healing plants and it got out of control. ;^) It is fascinating and very useful.
We'll never be 18 again but it is not that difficult to feel very vital as you've discovered. Just be judicious with the stimulants like Yohimbe which is probably more prone to cause irritation than Horny Goat Weed. For a lot of people a good work out is probably as "stimulating" as anything. But, like me, you might not like that Rx much.
What I have learned continues to serve me very well.
All you can tell from the fact that they tell you not to mix grapefruit juice and a medication is that this medication is metabolized by the same CYP enzyme that grapefruit juice inhibits.
Thus your little game about warfarin toxicity was attempting to skirt the issue and establish by example the general rule that you stated in your first post.
That you now no longer stand behind the general rule you stated in your first post is a good thing. Because it is wrong and not based upon anything other than your own misunderstanding of the processes involved.
No, of course not. /s
So Tigerparts IS a herbal practitioner who treats people, despite his denials. If so he should familiarize himself with the basics of biology and metabolism.
If aspirin, the inhibitor compound in grapefruit juice, and warfarin are all metabolized by the CYP enzyme 3A4, it in no way implies that aspirin or grapefruit juice are as toxic as warfarin.
You are a lying a-hole.
I have lied about nothing.
But you have taken a clarification of your incorrect point as a personal attack, tried to play an infantile game with warfarin while denying that you were trying to establish a rule with that example, denied that you were an herb peddler; now we have testimony from someone you have treated with herbal remedies.
You are a liar as well as a deluded quack.
And you are absolutely ignorant of the biomolecular processes of metabolism such that you incorrectly assume that compounds metabolized by the same CYP enzymes must have related toxicities.
I pity you and anybody deluded enough to follow your ignorant advice.
First of all I haven't treated anyone. But you said this:
"...to be a peddler of herbal remedies."
I said I don't "peddle" herbs and I haven't sold any for years. No where did pandorao0u812 say that I sold her any herbs. So there is one flat out lie. She also did not say that I treated her or her daughter, which I have not. So there is lie number two.
If aspirin, the inhibitor compound in grapefruit juice, and warfarin are all metabolized by the CYP enzyme 3A4, it in no way implies that aspirin or grapefruit juice are as toxic as warfarin.
I never said or implied that and I clarified my position which makes it clear that I did not well before you ever posted on this thread. There is flat out lie number three.
So you are a liar. You are also lazy and your reading comprehension is not the equal of a ten year old.
There you go. That statement proves that you are a liar and/or a complete bonehead.
If this was not your inane attempt at an ‘example that proves the rule’ then what was it?
Your original statement is not backed by any evidence, and seems based entirely upon your ignorance and misunderstanding of the biological processes involved.
That you took me taking exception to this as a personal attack shows where you are coming from.
You obviously have a lot invested in your image of yourself as a ‘herbal healer’ or whatever you want to call yourself; and that would be why my pointing out that your statement was incorrect was taken as a personal attack.
And your denial of being an herb peddler was based upon semantics? Talk about a lie by omission. You obviously are some sort of herb peddler, as we have seen “patient testimonials” coming to your aid; as it was quite obvious by your rhetorical flailing that you needed the assist.
As I already said that is a lie. A lie based on another huge assumptive leap from you. You act like a pre-teen gang banger with his first "nine" cruising the street looking for someone to shoot. Why try to explain what you can't understand? It doesn't take any more than a grade school level of reading comprehension to understand what I said yet you are still confused about it. No one else was.
I like Peaches & Herb. Is that ok?
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