Posted on 02/08/2010 10:21:02 PM PST by neverdem
Researchers are warning that popular herbs and supplements, including St. John’s wort and even garlic and ginger, do not mix well with common heart drugs and can also be dangerous for patients taking statins, blood thinners and blood pressure medications.
St. John’s wort raises blood pressure and heart rate, and garlic and ginger increase the risk of bleeding in patients on blood thinners, the researchers said. Even grapefruit juice can be risky, increasing the effects of calcium-channel blockers and statins, they said.
“This is not new research, but there is a trend toward more and more use of these compounds, and patients often don’t discuss with their doctors the compounds they are using on their own,” said Dr. Arshad Jahangir, senior author of a paper being published in Tuesday’s issue of The Journal of the American College of Cardiology.
The paper includes a list of more than two dozen herbal products that patients should approach with caution, as well as a list of common drug-herb interactions. Among the products listed are ginkgo biloba, ginseng and echinacea, as well as some surprises like soy milk and green tea — both of which can decrease the effectiveness of warfarin — and even aloe vera and licorice...
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
It is definitely the case that these drugs are dangerous. When taking Coumadin all herbs are contraindicated. As Habibi’s post #14 testifies to even many common foods are contraindicated. That was my original point. The article speaks of herbal medicines but lists some, that I referred to, which are themselves common foods. That says more about the drugs than it does about the herbs. Anyone taking them needs to be very cautious, informed and disciplined.
“they make the prescription rat poison you’re taking too powerful when combined with them - so, avoid the cranberries.”
And is so doing, I avoid death for awhile longer. It is a worthy endeavor.
Few patients are prescribed cranberries for PFO’s, and strokes tend to kick the crap out the brain. Coumadin therapy, is merely an annoyance by comparison.
I certainly agree with that.
I agree. too tired to write much but I think we are an over medicated people. Instead of stopping ginger, cranberries & garlic to NOT interfere with meds, how about stopping the meds & just do the naturals?
I did it with my mom when she was given 6 months to live. cold turkey. NO MORE MEDS. that was 18 years ago. She is vibrant, no pain & healthy with a sharp mind at 91.
she has occasional aspirin and allergy meds. that is it!
good luck with your journey!
What about Horny Goat Weed and/or Maca-do they have any related problems?
From the point of view of an herbalist and a physician (not me) the recommendation re herbs for someone on Coumadin is "none at all." The article could have simply said that.
From my POV, as just an herbalist, the conditions that reasonably call for any of these drugs is such an advanced pathology that there really aren't any herbal remedies that could be used in place of them or even used with them if it could be ascertained that it was safe.
Some of these conditions could have been managed with herbs, in combination with lifestyle changes, before they reached that point. Unfortunately a lot of people don't even realize they need to do something until things get to too serious of a level for herbs, diet and exercise alone.
See post #26 for a trained herbalists opinion on that. :-)
A swollen and sore prostate with Horny Goat Weed. lol
Maca is pretty cool stuff. Not so much a specific aphrodisiac as a general energizer. More of a nutrient than a medicine. But don't take it with any of these medicines.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Get the title of the original article, i.e. Use of Herbal Products and Potential Interactions in Patients with Cardiovascular Diseases.
Enclose it within quotation marks, and search for it online. This site claims that the following herbs are the most common.
Sometimes you find the original article on an author's webpage. Don't forget the quotation marks.
Dolly,
It is very nice of you to offer such encouragement. Especially with what can only be called a success story re. your mother. One never has guarantees in this life, but the advancement of medical science and real research resources on the Internet provide life saving information that was just not available previously.
I do not feel terribly endangered, or underinformed since I tend to hideously over-research most important matters. Couple this with a “Cabal” of medicos at my church providing inside info on the local medical establishment and associated assets, and I feel like I have advantages over normal patients. As another contributor mentioned, one needs to be informed and disciplined to make some of these things work. My previous profession molded me in that direction so a bit of constructive cynicism thrown into the mix is advantageous as well.
Having all of this under my belt, it is fun to debate with the cardiologists during my appointments. I have them trained now, so they only blow through my alloted time by 15 minutes or so. They do enjoy the results of my ongoing literature search, as I tend to fit into a rather narrow pool of patients.
Nine months ago a six month estimate would have sounded pretty good to me. Now, the docs are starting to talk to me like a person vs. a statistic once again. They no longer act as if they’re holding their breath. Now that they’ve come off of being Darwinian towards me, I’m starting to breath a little easier as well. ;-)
“As an herbalist”
Really? That’s interesting, even more so if you’re a professional in the area. Herbalism is a fascinating study, and it truly is a living science in China to this day. I’m not really interested in this for myself because, as you say, the condition goes well beyond what herbs can do. I’d be more concerned about herbs could do to me. And I quite agree that some conditions do not lend themselves to herbal treatments. As in my case, sometimes a “hammer” is necessary. If one knows how a hammer works, how it can be used, and how it should not be used, it becomes a matter of intelligently managing risk. As in operating high performance aircraft, there is the potential for getting hurt if you don’t know what you’re doing. Conversely, using that resource in an educated and cautious fashion can be quite beneficial with only slight risk. As I’m sure you already agree, you just need to know what you’re about.
Ditto that. I learned the hard way, from my wife, about that grapefruit-high BP medicine contra-indication thing.
Thanks. I’ll give that a try. I have at times, or still do, use some of these herbals.
After retrieving the article successfully, I see that OLEANDER is listed. Oleander is a fatal poison. I seriously wonder if that can be purchased as a supplement.
I readily agree with that. As Dirty Harry said "A man's got to know his limitations." ;-)
I went to a school directed by one of the best herbalists in western herbalism in the country. It was a broad based education that put the student in a position to take it in several directions. Many have become clinical herbalists, others opened herb stores (which is probably the best way to be a clinical herbalist) and some went into manufacturing while still others went on to careers in medicine. One gal I went to school with planned on becoming an RNN from the outset.
I'm more of the outdoors type and tried to make a living wildcrafting (collecting and processing wild medicinal plants) but I got a bit burned out with the lousy business ethics of the people I tried to work with. Too many fraking liberals. I had fewer problems with cheats and liars when I was in construction doing carpentry and contracting. Maybe that was just my luck because there are some great people in the field. I just had have a change.
Sooooo, I don't make a living at it but I am willing to help people that ask and I have a ton of herbs of all kinds. Mostly wild plants from the American west.
I'm rusty now but ten years ago I could step out of my truck anywhere in the western states and do at least an hour's herb walk off the top of my head. Having grown up fishing, hunting and camping it added a whole new dimension to the outdoors for me. In fact it changed my whole view of the southwestern deserts. I have always loved the mountains but didn't care too much for the desert. Now the desert is endlessly fascinating and beautiful to me. There is much more diversity of plant life there and some of the most unique plants in terms of phytopharmacology grow there.
As far as herbal medicine itself goes I think Traditional Chinese Medicine is the most advanced and the diagnostic protocols are the best. But they go well beyond herbs in therapeutic mediums. However it is said in herbal circles that one can learn a handful of local plants for their own uses and become effective with them for most things that herbs can do. I think that is basically true. Add a few "special" herbs that do things few other herbs can and you have a pretty effective medical kit.
Going back to the limitations of herbs; my teacher described botanical medicine as generally being most useful for sub-clinical pathologies. In layman's terms that means those chronic problems that physicians don't do well or don't even recognize as treatable by standard practice medicine.
compounds? garlic??
seriously, sounds like the problem isn’t with the natural “compounds” but the “medicines”
someone should raise the bar back to normal instead of allowing substandard junk onto the market
It’s not substandard junk. It’s last chance measures for extreme pathologies. A lot of the problem is with the people not the healers. We have come to think that we can do anything we want to do and when things go wrong the doctor will fix it.
If that's the original JACC article, why don't you link it?
In other words, bow down to western medicine and put your faith in man.
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