Neo-Pagans Get Worship Circle at Air Force Academy

FoxNews.com ^ | February 1, 2010 | Jpseph Abrams

[ZULU]

Doesn’t bother me as long as they give Jews and Christians equal time. Besides, History has proven that paganism can’t compete with the message of salvation offered by Judaeo-Christian theology.

Who knows? They may actually wind up sacrificing some Imams. Muslims think as highly of them as they do of us.

[eleni121]

not being forced to serve, or worship, ala government religious mandate.

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It is assumed that this nation was founded and exists on the basis of Judaeo-Christian values and beliefs.

For the State to create a pagan hangout sucks. But then again the “state” of the US is on life support lately.

[LomanBill]

[It is assumed that this nation was founded and exists on the basis of Judaeo-Christian values and beliefs.]

While it is true that some of the founders may *may* have held Judaeo-Christian values and beliefs - the FACT is that Thomas Jefferson, the man who articulated the American Declatation of Independence, felt so strongly on the subject of governmental religious mandate:

“I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN”
—Thomas Jefferson

What do you suppose he had in mind?

[LomanBill]

//religious mandate:

should be:

religious mandate that he said:

[LomanBill]

>>this nation was founded and exists

This nation was founded upon the precept of Self-Evident Truth.

“ALMIGHTY GOD HATH CREATED THE MIND FREE”

It is the inalienable right of the INDIVIDUAL to exercise that free mind in pursuit of an understanding of, and relationship with, their Creator - IF they so choose.

It is NOT within the scope of purpose for American Governance to Mandate what the path of that pursuit should be.

There are Christian folks who arrived at their spiritual position only after having examined other religions and having recognized the self-evident truth, for themselves, that YAHWEH is who Judeo-Christianity says He is. But that Truth is not for you, or for the government, to impose upon others.

We don’t have the Church of England here, and for good reason - BECAUSE THE 1st AMENDMENT FORBIDS IT.

It’s part of the difference between being a free Citizen - and a royal Subject.

[Tzfat]

As long as our tax dollars aren’t going towards building their rock circle I could care less

But you missed. Your tax dollars ARE paying for this tripe. And you are paying the salaries of the military staff that enforce this...

[eleni121]

Yes...we are not coerced by government but we are free only within the scope of a Judaeo Chrstian foundation...not a pagan or secular or Muslim one.

I agree with this essay - I encourage you to take a look

http://www.rbvincent.com/usconstitution.htm

[AdmSmith]

This is just for fun, an excuse to have some beer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetovid

[Clemenza]

Western Civilization did quite fine without Christianity. It can be argued that the Judaic Cult that became Christianity was a key factor in undermining the greatest (pagan) empire the world has ever known.

[LomanBill]

[”we are free only within the scope of a Judaeo Chrstian foundation...”]

“ALMIGHTY GOD HATH CREATED THE MIND FREE All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion.”
—Thomas Jefferson

[eleni121]

Western Civilization did quite fine without Christianity

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WOW. That statement you make demonstrates how little you know about Western Civilization

[eleni121]

“All attempts to influence it (the mind) by temporal punishments or burthens are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion ...”

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If that is really what Jefferson meant - I agree..holy author - the Lord Jesus Christ.Jefferson’s actions speak loudly. He gave land to Indian missionaries, installed chaplains on the government payroll, and provided for the punishment of disrespectful and blasphemous soldiers.

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“...but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion...”

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Jefferson was not referring to paganism wiccanism or especially mohamedanism. That includes “pagans”. And he was not demanding that public monies be used to build pagan “prayer” circles.

[Clemenza]

No, it merely illustrates the fact that what is now known as Western Civ had strong antecedents prior to Christianity.

It can be argued that the spread of Christianity from southern to northern Europe expanded the idea and ideals of the west to the formerly barbarian lands. Moreover, it is true that the conversion of Charlamagne led to the creation of a Holy Roman Empire that was Germanic, yet now open to the ideals of the south, channeled via a now-common Christian heritage.

Nevertheless, the "West" (inclusive of the Americas, there is no "Latin American Civilization"), as an idea and a set of ideals preceded the above by thousands of years, and will survive the decline of Christianity (all but complete in Europe, there is not ONE European state that is seeing a Christian revival). The question is, will it survive the "rise of the rest," particularly if "the rest" have imperial ambitions.

[LomanBill]

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

 

http://www.history1700s.com/etext/html/texts/jefferson/jeff1.txt

[eleni121]

I do admit that Jefferson was a “sect unto himself” - a kind of dangerously englightened figure of this time. And also those who worship at his altar too.

[LomanBill]

>>I do admit

 

Thanks for playing.

 

Jefferson's "Alter" was built upon the self-evident Truth of The Creator.     I freely conclude for myself that Judeo-Christianity most directly manifests that Truth; but I don't need your, or the state's, permission to reach that conclusion. 

 

In fact, were the state to impose such a mandate, folks might naturally feel inclined to resist and rebel... and miss out on His graceful offer of redemption all together; which would be  rather counterproductive from an evangelical perspective.   Evangelism instead of the manipulative imposition of your will via historical revisionism - imagine that.

 

>>a kind of dangerously enlightened [sic] figure of this time

 

Only dangerous to would-be tyrants and Ba'al servants like yourself.

"ALMIGHTY GOD HATH CREATED THE MIND FREE"

 

"I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN"
--Thomas Jefferson

 

I expect you'd think Martin Luther was "dangerous" as well... can't have The Word in the hands of the sheeple, right?   They might not pay indulgence fees to the ity Bity Eunuchs in charge over the vestigial Roman hierarchy!

[eleni121]

Well now the venom reveals itself-—the gentle jeffersonian defender turns into the Robespierre of political correctness.

Listen up
- your god may be the secular tommy J. but I know that there is no US without a firm foundation on guiding principles which come from Chrsitianity.

Now bug off..

[LomanBill]

>>Now bug off..

Awe. does the wittle Revisionist Historian Tyrant wannabe got its panties in a bunch?

"the insertion [of Jesus Christ] was rejected by the great majority"

 

What does "rejected by the great majority" mean?

 

What was the intent of the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom -  Hmmm?

 

 

[eleni121]

"the insertion [of Jesus Christ] was rejected by the great majority (of politicians")

----------------------------------------------------

Even though Robespierre Jefferson felt that way, the great majority of this nation is Christian. And will remain os stronger than ever after the Obummer is gone.

Troops pray to Jesus

[LomanBill]

[Jefferson was not referring to paganism wiccanism or especially mohamedanism]

 

And yet, in his Autobiography, regarding the exclusion of the words "Jesus Christ" from the Viginia Act for Religious Freedom - Jefferson said

"in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

So which is it - are you a liar or just ignorant of the historical truth?