Newly Installed Wind Turbines Idled by Minnesota's Winter

TwinCities.com ^ | 01/23/2010 | Tad Vezner

[Dr. Scarpetta]

Last year, about a dozen Minnesota communities dreamed of clean, green energy: spinning windmills powering hundreds of homes.

Now, months after the deadline, the windmills stand largely immobile, and communities are still waiting for the power to flow.

Eleven cities, including North St. Paul and Anoka, are participating in the wind turbine project, each getting a 115-foot windmill via the Minnesota Municipal Power Association, or MMPA.

The turbines were to be fully operational by Nov. 7. To date, the number is zero.

One reason offered this week at a North St. Paul City Council meeting: hydraulic fluid and lubricating oil in the turbines' gear boxes.

In cold weather, the fluid turns gel-like and doesn't flow, said Derick Dahlen, president of Avant Energy, which manages the MMPA.

That can be particularly problematic if the turbines are already at a standstill.

To fix the problem, a contractor installed heating elements this week in the turbines.

In addition, heat tracing is likely to be added to the hydraulic lines and lubrication oil system.

The windmills each cost about $417,000 and have been erected in Anoka, Arlington, Brownton, Buffalo, Chaska, East Grand Forks, Le Sueur, North St. Paul, Olivia, Shakopee and Winthrop, as well as at the MMPA's energy park in Faribault.

To fund the project, MMPA sold $5 million in zero-interest bonds.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

Yes, it's the worst of all worlds. They don't generate much energy. They cost a lot. They need tremendous maintenance. They are an eyesore. They kill incredible amounts of birds. They use up tons of space. They need governmental subsidies.

It'll end up being a financial disaster...

[Dr. Scarpetta]

The heating coils will be powered by electricity from the windmills which will be able to produce power because the heating coils thaw the windmills which will power the heating coils.....but fear not, any excess power will be diverted to the peasantry shivering below.

You don't sound too positive about the shivering peasantry getting their heat....

[Dead Corpse]

http://www.startribune.com/local/south/37748654.html

Biodeisel.

Stupid is as stupid does.

[Tax-chick]

Yep.

[Texas resident]

They need govt subsidies to operate. Best reason of all not to do it. Like Amtrak.
I attended a wind power conference a two years ago and learned a lot. The amount of concrete for the foundation is enormous. The gearboxes (GE) are very large and massive. The gearbox and generator is way up in the air making a huge bending moment on the stalk of he windmill. Oh, and the bird problem, there is a company that manufactures an electric device that emits a high frequency tone that makes birds avoid the area. It was expensive as hell. We were looking into becoming a parts supplier to the OEM’s of these condor cuisinarts, but we started to add up how much these big toys cost and decided not to play. Good move.

[SZonian]

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php

[DungeonMaster]

The hint is that they are $400,000 windmills which is some tiny unit. The “workhorse” GE 1.5 mw turbines, which I’m sure were all running just fine, are about $2-2.5 million.

[Cold Heart]

The bio-diesel has proven to gel up at much warmer temperatures (bio-diesel 15F, winter diesel -4 to
-20F) thats why some people install a second tank which is insulated & heated.

There are so many proven cases of ethanol water attraction, phase seperation and engine damage that marine boards and the FAA either do not reccomend its use or ban it outright.

I personally pulled a large cruiser off a sandbar which had grounded when the ethanol contaminated gas killed all three of its engines.

Ethanol gas does not have as long a storage life either. Many chemical companies have come out with additives just to counteract the harmful affects of the ethanol.

Oregon had a law mandating all gasoline sold in the state be ethanol contaminated. Due to many complaints from consumer agencies, marine board and the FAA, Oregon has modified the law to allow non-ethanol contaminated gas be sold under certain conditions (Aerogas, marine, small engine and premium).

[Joe 6-pack]

"It'll end up being a financial disaster..."

They'll be running just fine once the LED heat lamps are installed.

[Joe 6-pack]

Every time I see or read anything about these enviro windmills I can't help but think about the parallels between the global warmers and Don Quixote. Both may have the very best of intentions, but they are also both quite literally, tilting at windmills, expending all their energy and passion doing battle with a nonexistent enemy, making themselves look like fools to the rest of the world.

The fact that one of the world's largest wind turbine makers is the Spanish firm Gamesa, makes the irony all the more delicious.

[truthguy]

As I said any good electrical engineering or mechanical engineering student at a good university could tell you the deficiencies of wind power. Treehugger of which I'm familiar with is just such a group of energy charlatans as I mentioned. I'll bet not many (if any) of the people at Treehugger have direct experience with power systems at any level. I don't even need to look at the background of these folks. I already know it without even looking. Regardless of the fact that windmills do have a high tally of bird kills, the other factors with windmills should convince anyone that they are a bad deal. When you read the letters you get the typical types. The Power Companies are engaged in a conspiracy, etc. I can read these clowns like a book. When I come across them in real life I destroy their arguments. As I've stated Wind and Solar are niche power sources and will never be viable. They are going backwards.

[castlegreyskull]

Minnesota has two nuclear power plants.

[count-your-change]

No, I’m not. I find it hard to imagine depending upon wind with a chill factor a way below zero for heat. Kind of violates good sense, like putting ice in my shoes to warm my feet or something.

‘Course I don’t live in Minnysoda either.

[kcvl]

A coal fired heater would work just as well

But what about all that pollution? It could kill you! (that is if you don't freeze to death first) /SARCASM

The plant in Arkansas to build wind turbines went belly up! Of course you have to have government to bribe people to invest in them with TAXPAYER'S MONEY. Who else is stupid enough to do it?!

[Balding_Eagle]

What kind of a idiot buys a no-yield bond?

They're usually called zero coupon bonds, and there are still quite a few of those issued. The US Government used to isse them, maybe still do.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

I attended a wind power conference a two years ago and learned a lot. The amount of concrete for the foundation is enormous. The gearboxes (GE) are very large and massive. The gearbox and generator is way up in the air making a huge bending moment on the stalk of he windmill. Oh, and the bird problem, there is a company that manufactures an electric device that emits a high frequency tone that makes birds avoid the area. It was expensive as hell.

Apparently nothing is too expensive for the govt.

[chris_bdba]

Yes I was wondering that myself. Also how much does it cost to power the heaters? Won’t make much sense if they are using more energy to power the turbines to create less? Epic fail!

[SZonian]

Using emotional arguments as you did is what brought me to post that. Charlatans or not, the bird killing information is relevant. You and the other poster were using it as one point of an attack against wind energy. I was posting information that other FReepers may have found useful in forming an informed opinion on the matter.

Here in CA we have thousands of them and if we could, we would build more. I don’t give two rats if they kill a hundred birds or 100,000. Many times more are killed by various other means than by wind turbines.

I won’t argue the merits of wind power, here we use it and more of us here want it. We’re prevented from getting it. The libs have us in a stranglehold and you guys are whining over some damn birds.

You can’t have everything, pick your poison.

[truthguy]

Using emotional arguments as you did is what brought me to post that.

Emotions? Are you joking? I just gave you a list of very specific technical reasons windmills are a joke. Did you read my posts on all the negative aspects? Can you refute them?
Honestly.