Posted on 01/26/2010 12:28:00 PM PST by Nick Danger
The picture below was taken at a county fair. It shows an individual sitting in the Democratic Party booth wearing an air force uniform. We have determined
Is this individual's behavior legal? Can one campaign for partisan office in uniform? Can someone no longer in the air force wear the uniform at all, let alone to campaign?
If you are knowledgable on this subject, please provide a citation to the applicable regulations, and instructions on how to report this to the proper authorities.
Please do not speculate. If you don't know for certain, please don't pretend you do.We intend to file an official complaint, and we want it done right.
Man, am I dated? What is CSAF? I was active duty from 1956-1968.
DITTO. It also violates Government Ethics Guidelines. You cannot use your position or wear a uniform to connotate officialdom to solicit customers, support of a cause or product, etc, unless it is official business (ie recruiter, advocate for a military program, etc). Electioneering is not official business.
I’ll never have to worry about that if I run. I can’t fit in it anymore. Barely.
Haven't seen many other service troops out there doing it for the past 40 years. The ICBM maintenance troops are out there every day. In the winter, maintenance operations take at least twice as long to perform. It can take as much as four hours to just penetrate a Launch Facility when you have to chip ice and shovel snow just to get to the A and B plugs.
A normal can change (guidance system replacement) will take 12 hours in the winter and even once they are inside the Launch Facility the cold topside floods down into the launcher and makes things pretty nasty.
Except for the Battle of the Bulge and training, Air Force troops have historically spent more time in those kinds of adverse weather conditions than the Army. I won't even go into the aircraft maintenance types that are stationed in the hinterlands of Alaska at the forward operating bases even today.
Yes I have, having lived in Wisconsin and Minnesota, many of us jumped out to work on our vehicles when it warmed up to 10 or 15 above zero. It would have been nice to have the radiant floor heating that I saw in the air force hangers that I passed through on the way to doing army things.
Do you think that on those occasions when a few Air Force personnel have to work in the cold, that the army has all moved indoors? Every branch has it's mechanics and personnel that have to work in the same exact weather, but a couple of branches have personnel that live, sleep, and fight on the ground, in those same conditions.
Do you really think that generally, conditions for air force mechanics are worse, or even as bad as it is for the army and marine mechanics in the same theater, and do you think that it is as rough as it is for the men actually living out there in the wilds, in pup tents, or just sleeping bags?
Do many air force personnel have to strip naked to quickly swim a body of partly iced, moving water, at night, in those conditions, trying to keep their gear dry because they have to live in it for the following week with no resupply or assistance?
Chief of Staff of the Air Force...it would have been Gen Lemay during most of your time in...
Do you really think that the army stays back in garrison during cold weather? Their training and field work continues, in fact the units that cannot find those conditions have to travel to places where they can find them.
Where are you guys getting your knowledge of daily life in the Army and Marine Corps, you really think that they are the indoor services?
Chief of Staff, Air Force
If they were ribbons above the left pocket then they aren’t navy type ratings.
“Chief of Staff, Air Force”
What a relief. I thought they had changed from United States Air Force, and considering the current regime, I wouldn’t find it at all strange.
Last time I checked, it is an ALL-VOLUNTEER force. There are other choices for folks to make. Not so before that.
I never claimed anything different than what you now claim. I only put things into perspective for those who may not know otherwise about some of the elements USAF folks work in.
There are many jobs in all of the services that don’t require folks to strip naked to keep their gear dry. FAC’s from the USAF are right beside your fellow infantrymen just to name one though in the interest of disclosure.
We can sit here all day trying to build strawmen. I had no intention of denigrating or minimizing any individual’s service in replying to your post. They all deserve respect because they are wearing the uniform.
The flightlines don’t have radiant heating btw. We were lucky if we could get approval for a heater so we could function in below freezing weather.
I dragged my knuckles on USAF and Navy flightlines for close to 20 years before I got promoted off the line and ended up as a REMF (QA) for my last 2.5 years of AD.
SZ
No, and never said that. You have just insinuated it though as a part of an illogical argument technique.
My nephew was enlisted in the 101st, now a officer in the 101st and my son-in-law is a SAW gunner in the Marine Corps. I spent way too many years in the Pentagon with other Service member who did heroic things and things they can't even talk about outside a SCIF
I spend a lot of time talking with them and I thank them for their service all the time. I do so for all other I see too and I respect their service and the hardships they have met and overcome.
What I do not like are people who, for some reason, have chips on their shoulders and have to denigrate other Services and their members to sooth some internal inferiority complex. A "well, my time was tougher..." reply to people sounds just like the types of conversations a person can hear at any grade school playground.
I can't speak for everyone...but this line of conversation was driven by post 4 suggesting that the Air Force wasn't military. So, in my mind, there's no question about the Army or Marines. They don't need to defend themselves.
However, after 28 years of service (including 1 year as a director on a JTF staff), I can tell you that the USAF shouldn't have to defend itself either. ESPECIALLY after the support airmen have given in Iraq & Afghanistan. We’ve got folks on the ground, working outside their element…running convoys, leading reconstruction and training teams…keeping everyone supplied.
Inter-service rivalry is fun…but when we get in the fight, everybody has to play their part.
CSAF = Chief of Staff of the AF
I know.....I was offended by the comment “...the military, and then the AF” - I was an AF brat for 21 years (til my dad’s retirement) and then worked for them for another 21 yrs and for anyone to say “the military, and then the AF” pisses me off....I have friends who were AF and spent years as POWs in Viet Nam (one of them being Bud Day - MOH winner)...have a ton of friends who were in Viet Nam and are all members of the Red River Valley Fighter Pilots Assn (better known as the River Rats)....so it’s pretty offensive to me that anyone would not consider the AF as military.....maybe I read the comment wrong but I don’t think so....
Yeah, it's going to be hard for this USAF motorhead to see his son join the Army (Combat Engineer is his goal). ;-)
But through and through, I think we can all agree that every service has its share of folks who have tough jobs to do.
SZ
I don’t know what being a volunteer service has to do with it.
I don’t think that anyone has had to be drafted into the air force, once they were pulled from army control. The navy hasn’t needed a draft since their big combat era of WWII ended.
Everybody that works on vehicles and aircraft in the military (and in civilian life) has to do it regardless of the climate at their post, it is not limited to the air force and the navy.
I spent two years in the Army in between two four year stints in the USAF. It took three MOS Army NCO’s to do the job of one USAF NCO of the comparable AFSC. I was used as a triple MOS the two years in the Army waiting to get back into the USAF. There are more than enough cases of USAF men fighting with and along side Marines and Army and many cases of USAF men giving their lives to rescue Marines or members of the Army. Any disparaging remarks about the willingness of USAF to endure or fight are made out of extreme ignorance. I worked with Navy, Army, and Marines and all had respect for me as I did for them. Every branch of the service has the cream puff specialties and the rough ones. God Bless America.
Based on the angle of the picture it looks like the Air Force Booth is set up next to the Democrat booth. Look at the blue divider curtain, to which a white poster is attached.
Nothing wrong with this when you actually examine the picture.
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