Posted on 01/13/2010 3:15:33 PM PST by greatdefender
Members of the El Paso City Council appear to favor the purchase of over 1,000 assault rifles for the police department, which says it needs them to protect the city from increasingly better armed criminals.
The council will be asked on Tuesday to approve the purchase of 1,145 assault rifles at a cost of $772,646. That would supply all patrol officers with the civilian version of the M-4 military rifle. The lowest bid is from recommended bidder GT Distributors Inc. of Austin.
The money would come from a federal grant of up to $899,287, funds targeted at stimulating the economy.
The case for the purchase is usually couched in terms of the drug-cartel violence in Juárez.
“We definitely don’t want our police officers to be outgunned by any cartel operatives who might come over to El Paso,” says El Paso Mayor John Cook.
But in the wake of shootings at Fort Hood and incidents here involving soldiers, some council members say they are also concerned about errant soldiers.
Peter Pacillas, assistant chief for training and special operations, does not single out soldiers for concern. He says, “Anybody who has the capability of using a high-caliber weapon is a concern for us.”
Gun seizures
Three incidents in El Paso involving soldiers last year underscore those concerns. In each, soldiers used handguns, but police say the logical defense would be a rifle capable of shooting accurately over a significant distance.
Last April, a Chapin High School student was killed by a solider who was firing from across the street. The soldier, according to the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division, used a handgun. He was charged with murder.
In August, a solider was charged with shooting another solider at an El Paso bar. That, too involved a hand gun, according to the CID.
But perhaps the most notorious case cam in June, when an 18-year-old soldier stationed at Fort Bliss was charged in connection with the contract killing of a Mexican drug cartel lieutenant who also was a police informant. According to the El Paso Police Department, Michael Jackson Apodaca used a semi-automatic handgun.
According to statistics kept by the police department, the total number of guns seized by the police during searches and arrests has dropped over the last three years. What is worrisome, police say, is the increase in the percentage of those guns that are automatic or semi-automatic. Being able to fire more lead in a short period of time makes the criminal more dangerous.
Police seized 287 weapons in 2007, 265 in 2008 and only 253 in 2009. But the percentage of those weapons that are automatic or semi-automatic rose from 46.7 percent in 2007, to 50.2 percent in 2008, and to 59.7 percent in 2009.
“I feel comfortable with the request,” says Beto O’Rourke, city representative for the Westside District 8. “We are not trying to outgun the people with guns in our community, but to protect the public.”
Gang worries
Susie Byrd, District 2 representative, says she still has some questions.
“You always want police to approach any situation with an abundance of caution,” she says. “Having big assault rifles might embolden less cautious behavior.”
But she says she also worries about the violence across the border and the possible impact of military gangs.
According to the National Gang Threat Assessment for 2009, issued by the U.S. Department of Justice, the number of gang members who are in or who have come out of the military is unknown.
But, the report says, “the threat that (gang members with military training) pose to law enforcement is potentially significant, particularly if gang members trained in weapons, tactics and planning pass this instruction on to other gang members.”
A spokesman for the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division acknowledges the presence of criminal gangs in the military, but says the problem is not rampant.
“We certainly recognize this is a serious issue, and each incident or credible allegation will be fully investigated,” says Chris Grey, Army CID chief of public affairs.
The population increase caused by expansion at Fort Bliss may become a factor in crime levels, says city Rep. Steve Ortega, District 7.
“If you add to that a population coming back from an extremely violent environment integrating with the civilian population, we want to make sure that the police department has all the resources it needs to make us the safest city in the nation.”
For West Side District 1 Rep. Ann Morgan Lilly, the decision was relatively easy.
“If the police are asking for them (the assault rifles) and need them, that’s OK,” she says. “(Police Chief) Greg Allen never asks for anything he doesn’t need.”
If council approves the purchase, the M-4s could be here in 90 days. Police officials say all officers will receive 40 hours of training before putting the weapons in the locked racks of their patrol car trunks.
I want an M-4 in each of my vehicles (or two, or three) ;-)
Not really sure about the need for an M-4 in every car, but $674.80 per rifle is at least a reasonable price.
I believe, given what is happening in Cd. Juarez and given what has happened in El Paso already, that this is a smart move. I am glad the price is right.
Here again we have Federal Funds being used to up arm the local police. Bad Idea. If the city of El Paso and it’s elected leaders want to arm the police to that level fine, let them do it with local money. God himself, and Mayors office knows what strings are attached to those M4’s, and the Federal money that bought them. I for one don’t want the local governments armed like the 101st Airborne.
Get rid of the illegals and enforce the borders will cut down on the violence. Might need all those evil assault rifles for the border, though.
Did anyone notice how an article about guns became an article about soldiers shooting people?
A high-caliber weapon would be .408 and up.
Anybody can use a firearm. The question is about proficiency.
You don’t need M4’s if you could at least mine the border with bouncing betty’s...
SO instead you want to see dead police?
in some instances the police have to armed like this. It isnt mayberry there.
I also believe that honest people have the same right to buy the rifles themselves to defend hearth and home.
The M-4 has a shorter barrel than the M-16. Maybe the 16’s would be a bit more accurate?
SEMI-automatic rifles do not, in any way, arm somebody “like the 101st Airborne”.
I have THREE of these rifles, in various configurations.
IMHO, EVERY cop should have access to a semi-automatic rifle, if trained.
SEMI-automatic rifles do not, in any way, arm somebody “like the 101st Airborne”.
I have THREE of these rifles, in various configurations.
IMHO, EVERY cop should have access to a semi-automatic rifle, if trained.
That's a great price. Just the upper assembly alone is selling for that.
Not by any appreciable measure.
The longer sight radius helps at the far end of the rifle’s effective range, but the use of optics (compact scopes or red-dot sights) negate this advantage. And the M-4 is much more compact for somebody in a vehicle.
My son is building an M-16, he bought the lower trigger housing group. I was thinking of doing the same, particularly since we live in California and they’re Nazis here. The A4 version of he M-4 would be nice.
Actually if you would just let them carry one most officers would purchase their own. You would also have less lost or stolen weapons if the officer owned it.
Why do so many, including some LEOs, have such a hard-on for the M4? Short barrel equals crazy muzzle blast and a huge loss of ballistic energy from a cartridge with none to spare. Our guys who carry this weapon overseas have lots of other stuff including crew-served and explosive ordnance that will reach out to the bad guys.
For a domestic LEO who just might get caught out all by himself there are better rifles than the M4 to hunker down with.
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