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Court upholds police pointing gun at lawful carrier
Atlanta Gun Rights Examiner ^ | December 31, 2009 | Ed Stone

Posted on 12/31/2009 9:46:30 AM PST by Still Thinking

It's open season on gun carriers.

A case out of the First Circuit has some painful lessons for gun carriers in Georgia. A United States Circuit Court of Appeals last week upheld the constitutionality of pointing a gun at any citizen daring to carry, lawfully, a concealed weapon in public.

The First Circuit Court of Appeals is the Court just below the United States Supreme Court in the New England states. The case stems from a lawyer who sued a police officer after he was detained for lawfully carrying a concealed weapon while in possession of a license to carry concealed. According to the case opinion, the lawyer, Greg Schubert, had a pistol concealed under his suit coat, and Mr. Schubert was walking in what the court described as a "high crime area." At some point a police officer, J.B. Stern, who lived up to his last name, caught a glimpse of the attorney's pistol, and he leapt out of his patrol car "in a dynamic and explosive manner" with his gun drawn, pointing it at the attorney's face.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: banglist; bor; examiner; jbt; jbts
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1 posted on 12/31/2009 9:46:30 AM PST by Still Thinking
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To: Still Thinking
It's not concealed if somebody can see it.
2 posted on 12/31/2009 9:49:26 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

True, and an admonishment to that effect would have been a more proportionate response.


3 posted on 12/31/2009 9:52:51 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Still Thinking
Main Entry: con·ceal Pronunciation: \kən-ˈsēl\ Function: transitive verb Etymology: Middle English concelen, from Anglo-French conceler, from Latin concelare, from com- + celare to hide — more at hell Date: 14th century 1 : to prevent disclosure or recognition of 2 : to place out of sight
4 posted on 12/31/2009 9:54:33 AM PST by Pajama Blogger (Pajama Power)
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To: Still Thinking
So, the officer felt threatened or privileged?
5 posted on 12/31/2009 9:54:55 AM PST by Loud Mime (Liberalism is a Socialist Disease)
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To: Still Thinking
True, and an admonishment to that effect would have been a more proportionate response.

No argument from me.

The moral here is never put yourself in a position where you could be vulnerable to a thug cop.

Exposing your legally-concealed firearm does just that.

6 posted on 12/31/2009 9:55:42 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
My previous response: "True, and an admonishment to that effect would have been a more proportionate response."

And even that response would be permissible only if the incident occurred in a state where open carry is taboo. Despite requiring licenses for concealed carry, many states allow open carry with no license. If this occurred in one of those states, even that slim thread of an excuse is gone.

7 posted on 12/31/2009 9:55:51 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Still Thinking

I’m thinking this attorney went out specifically to start the ball rolling for a lawsuit.

And he got what he wanted.


8 posted on 12/31/2009 9:56:35 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (During this joyous Christmas season, I'd like you to know....A reindeer bit my sister once.)
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To: Loud Mime
So, the officer felt threatened or privileged? Not really following you.
9 posted on 12/31/2009 9:57:11 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I’m normally not a big fan of lawsuit trolling, but if it results in a hesitancy of cops to treat the armed among their masters as automatic suspects, I’ll live with it.


10 posted on 12/31/2009 9:58:56 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
The case stems from a lawyer who sued a police officer after he was detained for lawfully carrying a concealed weapon while in possession of a license to carry concealed. According to the case opinion, the lawyer, Greg Schubert, had a pistol concealed under his suit coat, and Mr. Schubert was walking in what the court described as a "high crime area." At some point a police officer, J.B. Stern, who lived up to his last name, caught a glimpse of the attorney's pistol, and he leapt out of his patrol car "in a dynamic and explosive manner" with his gun drawn, pointing it at the attorney's face.

Lawyer, walking around in "high crime area", and just happens to have his "concealed" handgun visible to passing officer. I suspect that the lawyer was also dressed a bit like a gang banger, and was trying to curtail police stops of armed gang bangers.

11 posted on 12/31/2009 9:59:22 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Article says he was wearing a suit. (Presumably not a “law suit”) Don’t know if the author knows what he’s talking about or just assuming.


12 posted on 12/31/2009 10:00:53 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Still Thinking
My previous response: "No argument from me."

I was merely pointing out that there are indeed a fraction of cops out there who are thugs.

Since I prefer to avoid as many unpleasant events in my life as possible, I would elect to make sure that my legally concealed firearm was never unconcealed. That way I don't have to deal with thug cops.

But that's just me.

13 posted on 12/31/2009 10:03:20 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

You’re wise to do so. I don’t intend to suggest disagreement with you, but with the cop’s actions (if they’re as reported).


14 posted on 12/31/2009 10:07:01 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Still Thinking

In a simpler age, the verdict would have been clear: the cop was/is a moron, was entirely too full of himself, and over-reacted.

But, then, these are the Obama years.


15 posted on 12/31/2009 10:07:56 AM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: Jack Hammer
But, then, these are the Obama years.

Right. Now all we have to say is "The cop acted stupidly."

16 posted on 12/31/2009 10:08:47 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Still Thinking

The “concealing” was pathetic, and the response was disproportionate and ridiculous ... but disproportionate responses are not necessarily unconstitutional.

Lawyers are often a hammer in search of a nail.

SnakeDoc


17 posted on 12/31/2009 10:10:14 AM PST by SnakeDoctor (Ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders ...)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

99/100 is a fraction....and when it comes to thug cops, I find they are the norm rather than the exception. I too would take steps to secure my weapon to avoid having to deal with a douche.

I don’t bang on the glass at the zoo gorilla exhibit, I don’t take a rake to a hornet’s nest, I don’t leap in to the isle and knock over the pope, and I don’t go to rough neighborhoods looking to provoke someone who is more often than not going to be a dick.

This lawyer seemed to get exactly what he was looking for.


18 posted on 12/31/2009 10:11:34 AM PST by texan75010
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To: Still Thinking; NFHale; hiredhand; Squantos
well if the valid 'permit' isnt verifiable, why bother ???

eventually the cops are gonna pick on a BG instead of a citizen whose gone to great lengths to ask the state 'pretty please'...

BGs typically dont ask permission, nor do they hesitate, they just start shootin to eliminate the threat...

19 posted on 12/31/2009 10:11:56 AM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Still Thinking

Probably trolling for a lawsuit...BUT...the officer did a poor job....and so did the court. How can the court say it was appropriate to arrest (detain in the car) a person specifically for doing something that was legal?

What is it about the 2nd ammendment that is so confusing to people. Even if the cop was scared, concerned, whatever...this guy had the right to carry a gun. If he was dressed poorly, looked suspicious, was in a bad part of town, whatever, why does that give him the right to even ‘investigate’ the validity of his concealed carry license. Unless he stopped the guy for littering, jaywalking, etc., he has no business investigating the gun.

The court has now established that the mere presence of a gun is no probable cause to investigate the possibility the gun may be illegal. Its like getting pulled over because there is a possibility the car you are driving might be stolen.

What happens when a cop stops a guy for carrying a legal gun, and finds drugs in the pat-down? Is that admissable in court?

Sorry, I just don’t get it. Guns are legal - protected in the constitution, legally sold all over the place, and if I want to strap a holster to my belt, in the open, I should be able to.

BTW, I’m not a ‘gun nut’...only own uno rifle.


20 posted on 12/31/2009 10:15:08 AM PST by lacrew (The 274th trimester is a very late procedure)
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