Posted on 12/24/2009 3:44:23 PM PST by raptor22
Climate Change: A peer-reviewed study by a respected Canadian physicist blames the interplay of cosmic rays and chlorofluorocarbons for 20th-century warming. The CFCs are now gone, and so is warming — perhaps for the next 50 years.
Much of the nation got a white Christmas this year, some in unprecedented quantities. A record-breaking storm deposited 12 to 30 inches of snow in Virginia, Maryland and Washington, D.C. Many places set records for the most snow in a single December day as more than 50% of the U.S. was covered by the white stuff.
Scientists (and here we use the word loosely) at Britain's Climate Research Unit may have tried to "hide the decline" in global temperatures, but it's hard to hide two feet of snow. Their motto seems to be the immortal words of Groucho Marx: "Who are you going to believe, me or your own lying eyes?"
(Excerpt) Read more at investors.com ...
“CFC atoms affix themsleves to the heated air coming out of the capitol building and rise to the top with the hot air.”
Bring back ny R-12 and blow up the Capitol building, problem solved!
In the late 80s I used to fly 25# canisters of R-12 to a shrimp fleet in Guymas and it cost me $1/#.
When it was outlawed my wholsale supplier told me that it had nothing to do with climate or the atmosphere that it was because DuPont’s patents were running out and it was so cheep to make that they wanted it eliminated so they could sell their R-134 which would give them a profit.
Who are these guys shitting anyway ? They can’t tell me what th eweather will be this Saturday correctly and yet they know 50 years from now. It’s all nature and man has little to do with any of this.
“Tell me how CFCs that are heavier than air can reach the upper atmosphere?”
There’s enough random motion among the molecules in the atmosphere that even heavier molecules can end up distributed at essentially all altitudes. Heck, even macroscopic particles - orders of magnitude heavier - can end up at high altitudes in dust storms and the like.
The migration of CFC’s to the upper atmosphere is exacerbated by their relative chemical inertness (at least until they encounter high-energy UV radiation up there), and is well-established both theoretically and experimentally.
That’s why climate change is the perfect problem. As it is always changing, no one can disprove it.
Well, it's not Global Warming or Global Cooling or Climate Change that is the problem with conservatives. We already know that these are all true and it's not a problem.
The problem is the "Anthropogenic Global Warming" -- and that's the one that the handful of scientists (who are promoting this) along with a bunch of politicians -- are pushing to make some political hay out of it.
I would just advise FReepers to not get very worried about Global Warming or Global Cooling or Climate Change -- as none of these present a problem to us.
It's only the "Anthropogenic Global Warming" that presents the problem.
Nope. It was NEVER going to be a catastrophic as many predicted. Never.
Chlorofluorocarbons? Bring Back Freon Now! Stop Global cooling dead in its tracks! And give us all back decent fridges, airconditioners etc...
BTW some one estimated it took only 100 years for the glaciers 2 km thick to form in the last Ice Age... only 95 years left -— hurry.
The CFC scare was (and is) as big a scam as AGW.
The “improvement” seen in the ozone levels recently weren’t supposed to happen for decades....the vast majority of CFCs are still in our atmosphere and as time passes and they work there way into the stratosphere, ozone depletion should still be on the increase.
The “ozone hole” is now known to run in cycles, and has as much to do with the solar activity as with the concentration of any CFCs.
The entire premise was based on incomplete data....atmospheric ozone had only been measured since the early 50’s.
One more thing...the actual process of CFC’s breaking down, and catalyzing the ozone has only been observed in laboratory conditions. Never in the atmosphere.
JunkScience is always a good place to look for the skeptical view on “man made” climate claims.
http://junkscience.com/Ozone/ozone_seasonal.html
Algore is not pleased........
I would embrace global warming (I live in Wisconsin) if it were actually happening. But it’s not.
Anyone wanna buy a years supply of food??
And, unlike CO2, CFCs are completely man-made and nothing that the earth has ever handled before.
It seems this is all bull too...
Apparently, an Antarctic ozone hole was around long before CFCs. It appears seasonally and varies in size through the years. The 2006 ozone hole was the largest on record. In 2007, it shrank by 30%. The 2008 hole was the fifth largest since 1985. Could this be the result of nature, not man? Yes, according to a recent paper, “Ultraviolet Absorption Spectrum of Chlorine Peroxide, CLOOCL,” published in the Journal of Physical Chemistry, written by a team from the Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) at Cal Tech. It's challenged our entire understanding of chemical ozone depletion.Source: Contracting Business
I live here, too and it has been consistently 10+ degrees warmer than average for the past several weeks, especially at night.
I am in the “there is some warming and it is part of a natural cycle and not anthropogenic” camp. Also, the meteorologists consistently get the forecasts wrong. My guess is that the dynamic quality of the systems they can track make their predictions less than perfect. We often see forecast storms at all seasons go North and South of us, regardless of forecast tracks.
We had 10+ inches of snow forecast from this storm. Then it was downgraded to 5”+. Now, we _may_ get 1 inch tonight, if it cools off enough. Meanwhile, we have had rain overnight and a lot of the accumulated snow is gone.
What is the fluke and what is the consistent trend? Last summer, which was cool, overall, I was positive I would get no ripe tomatoes. Then August and September were warm and I had a bumper crop, even though the warmth came after Summer Solstice. I heard fears from area farmers that the corn wouldn’t ripen, but it did. Fall was significantly warmer than the past 2 years, as well.
I think the warmers, in general, have an ideological agenda. I also am certain they will continue to attempt to use whatever happens with the climate and weather to try and control and tax the world. Uncertainty only helps them unless people just decide it is not that great a problem and ignore them.
Given the price of fuel and the general state of the economy, this present warm December is a blessing.
35 degrees at 8 am Christmas morning? It seems that it may even be nearly 40 just a bit South of us.
Stultis, I'm a graduate of Denton High School. At least from 1975 forward, the DFW metroplex has not had a white Christmas, though there has been crappy weather on New Year's Day.
However, in 1976, we did have a blizzard that dropped six inches of snow in November. This is memorable for the fact that Florida State played the University of North Texas in Denton (then North Texas State University) and North Texas was favored. Bobby Bowden was in his first year at FSU and pulled the upset in front of a crowd of screaming dozens (I was one of them - one of my friends was in the stadium bathroom grasping the overhead hot water pipe for heat).
Of course it 1976 we were still concerned about global cooling.
Good post!
check out the following...
There is a book "The Chilling Stars" on the link between cosmic rays and the sun and cloud cover. CFCs aren't needed.
This effort with CFCs is just an attempt to retain the Anthropogenic part of AGW, so as to continue justifiying fine scale government control over our lives.
“The CFC scare was (and is) as big a scam as AGW.”
I agree with you totally on AGW.
I don’t know the current state of research on the “ozone hole” business, although I do agree it was totally over-hyped: there’s always been a seasonal “ozone hole” over the Antarctic; the depletion during the extremely cold months is reasonably well-understood; and the degree to which CFC’s exacerbated that phinomenon (and the associated danger of that increase in ozone loss) is in my opinion a reasonable subject for debate.
But my point had little to do with ozone depletion, other that the supposition that any affect of CFC’s on ozone concentration was catalytic in nature.
As regards *global temperature*, IF decomposition of CFC’s led to radical fragments that acted catalytically, and IF that process could in fact lead to some measurable warming (and those are big IFs), that phenomenon could in fact be beneficial.
I was not aware that the degree of seasonable ozone depletion at the poles was cyclic - that does seem entirely reasonable; I had read some that the “recovery” of seasonable ozone levels was greater than expected.
Thanks for the additional info on the topic - public policy driven by junk science makes me crazy, and it generally turns out that once the envirowhacko’s get their way (a CFC ban), any further science on the issue hardly ever makes it past the primary literature, and further evaluation by non-specialists gets a lot harder to pursue.
“Given the price of fuel and the general state of the economy, this present warm December is a blessing.
35 degrees at 8 am Christmas morning? It seems that it may even be nearly 40 just a bit South of us.”
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WARM?!?!?!?
11 degrees & -19 with windchill here!
No non-emergency travel until noon Saturday, and we can hear the howl of the wind over our Christmas music! (and we live in town, not out on the farm.)
Obviously, our snowdrifts can beat your snowdrifts - beat them like a rented mule! Beat them like a red-headed stepchild! Beat them like ManBearPig on Algore!
Warm - feh.
What it demonstrates is that no one pays attention to an expert who presents multiple sides of an issue. They pay attention to con men... err... experts who are SURE of themselves.
It would be funny if a glacier threatened a major city. They’d be thinking up ways to melt that glacier so fast it would make your head spin.
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