Posted on 12/12/2009 1:30:53 AM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld
The growth of the Chinese navy, seen from the Chinese point of view, is the result of China's three decades of economic growth and modernization. This economic growth depends on massive imports of raw materials, particularly oil and ores, especially iron ore. While China's economy could continue to grow without its massive exports, that economy would collapse without the imports. Thus China has gone from being classic "Continental Power" (that was not dependent on seaborne commerce), to a maritime power, that must maintain access to oceanic supply routes. Thus China needs a navy to help preserve that access. Russia, the other great Eurasian continental power, is still one. Russia produces its own oil, and can get anything else it needs via land routes in Eurasia. Thus Russia is not overly concerned that its navy is shrinking to the size of coast guard. China, however, has to be particularly concerned with the sea routes to distant Persian Gulf and Africa. Australia is closer, but still a long sea distance away. It's not that China wants to fight a naval war, but it does want a strong enough navy to prevent any smaller, rogue, nation from interfering with Chinese shipping. For example, China's contribution to the anti-piracy patrol in the Gulf of Aden is a big deal in China. For once, the Chinese Navy is able to reach a long distance, and protect Chinese interests.
(Excerpt) Read more at strategypage.com ...
An ever-growing need for raw materials, as justification for military expansionism?
The same reason Imperial Japan attacked America, then...
Ping!
Naval power has no bearing on Russian / China relations. China can have the most capable navy in the world but it will always border Russia. Russian can use China as its De facto naval influence. From Russia’s point of view it is genius. Russian can instigate like a “bitch,” but when the chips are down China is the one that will be nuked. Point is, the U.S. needs to start sinking submarines, just like the proverbial judge.
You build large Navies not to make sure you can get raw materials....you build a large Navy so you can TAKE raw materials at no cost
The stupidity and the subversiveness of the Liberal Free Trade Globalist crowd....who still believe you achieve prosperity by wealth-redistribution....and peace through strengthening the enemy.
In saner times in America....the Free Trader Globalist crowd would be tried and punished for treason for their aiding and abetting Communist China
Preciaely. It is a winner for the Russians (in the Pacific, anyway), and enables them to concentrate some of their resources elsewhere.
In the event of conflict, let your enemies duke it out among themselves first--they both wear down.
The thing that disturbs me is that Australia has all but abandoned its submarine effort. I would volunteer (for a humble fee)to serve in the Australian navy as a submariner, if that is what it would take to maintain there naval effort.
I think it’s a mistake to say the Chinese want a larger navy solely for the purpose of military expansionism. They are dependent on trade, but they are unable to protect their trade routes without a blue water navy.
I know it’s discomforting to think of a larger Chinese navy (from a US security point of view), but it’s not like we haven’t been in this position before. I doubt either country wants a war, and both sides could always resort to nukes as a last resort.
UCFRoadWarrior: “you build a large Navy so you can TAKE raw materials at no cost”
So that’s why we have our large navy?
My theory is that the Chinese navy is to protect its "backdoor" from us.
All of the raw materials they need plus room for their population is right through the steppe to the Urals...and beyond.
Be very careful with this analogy.
There was blatant racisim against Japan in 1900-1930 U.S. politicss. Imperial Japan attacked the U.S.A. because we cut off their access to petroleum in the 1930s. Japan has a lack of natural resources, and must import almost everything their population manufacutures.
If Saudi Arabaia had done that to us, what would have been our response? In the 1970s I recall reading response of citizens who were outraged that the Saudis imbargoed oil because of Israel, imflamatory statements such as we should invade Saudi Arabia and take over their nation.
I don’t think the average person working in China to support their family has designs on world-wide domination. Okay - maybe the crazy commie leaders dream about that, but hey! Your man or woman in the street is dreaming about a new car or washingmachine!
Protecting their maritime supply lines is practical. That is what our ancestors, and Great Britain’s ancestors were all about; Naval sea power.
“don’t think the average person working in China to support their family has designs on world-wide domination. Okay - maybe the crazy commie leaders dream about that, but hey! Your man or woman in the street is dreaming about a new car or washingmachine!”
The average chinese has dick to say about China’s international policies. They will do what they are told to do, including killing us.
Well... let’s take a serious look at our options.
chirp, chirp, chirp (as the crickets go)
That didn’t take long.
Seriously, you going to pick a fight with China? (no) You going to impose sanctions? (no) You going to sit back and watch them do as they please? (yes)
That’s the rub, isn’t it?
How much has the government of China changed? Is it REALLY changing, or is that an illusion?
China has moved to block North Korea from waving through it’s dis-satisfied people onto Chinese soil. China will no longer rubber stamp North Korean practices.
These are small actions; but the Chinese are a conservative and tradional-minded people. They can be practical, as we are; but they are not like us.
Because they really, really, really like Hawaii.
Command of the Sea. Everyone should read Alfred Thayer Mahan’s book “ The Influence of Sea Power upon History 1660-1805”. It will explain it all.
One main purpose of a Navy is to PROJECT POWER. That means kill people and break things in the name of the government which owns the ships.
PLAN Ping!
China is trying to get her “place in the sun” and I believe the new powerful navy will be used to project influence. China, like many new nations in the past, may well turn to imperialism (They have—just ask any Tibetan). They can use the new fleet to move south towards Malaysia or towards India in the Indian Ocean. They can seize the oil rich Islands off Viet Nam. They can use the fleet to call our bluff and seize Taiwan. They will not let this fleet rust in port but use it to project power all the way to San Diego. With Red China buying our debt what will we be able to do if China goes Imperial? Zip. If they want to rule the Pacific—they can.
If they want to seize Hawaii—they will. This is a real threat to the peace of the world. I can see China moving to East Africa and seizing Singapore. Lets hope I am wrong but build ups like this always come before a mayor war.
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