What’s in your H1N1 flu vaccine?

Straight.com ^ | 11/19/2009 | Alex Roslin

[autumnraine]

Shaw wasn’t always skeptical about vaccines. The neuroscientist at the University of British Columbia had his teenage son vaccinated with most of the recommended shots. But then he started studying some of the ingredients commonly found in vaccines.

What he discovered caused him to go cold turkey on all shots for his six-year-old daughter. And that includes the vaccine for the H1N1 flu.

“I am not convinced H1N1 is sufficiently hazardous to most people to risk the potential downside of the vaccine,” Shaw said over the phone from his office in the research pavilion at the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority.

Shaw isn’t an easily dismissed vaccine conspiracy theorist. He is a leading expert on amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, or Lou Gehrig’s disease) and Parkinson’s disease. While investigating unusually high rates of ALS and other neurological disorders among veterans who have Gulf War syndrome, he found evidence that the cause may have been aluminum salt, an ingredient in the cocktail of vaccines given to soldiers before deployment.

Although aluminum salt isn’t present in the H1N1 vaccine, Shaw’s discovery made him concerned about other vaccines, including the swine-flu shot. He isn’t alone in his thoughts.

Despite a full frontal assault of news about the dangers of the flu and the importance of vaccination, a survey in late October revealed that only 36 percent of Canadians said they would get the shot. Lack of trust in the vaccine was cited as the main reason for vaccine opposition. Another poll in November found that 65 percent of Canadians believe the media has overreacted to the threat of swine flu.

Even many health workers aren’t convinced. In two separate surveys, in the U.K. (Pulse) and Hong Kong (British Medical Journal), published in August, half of health-care professionals said they didn’t intend to get the vaccine.

[autumnraine]

“This should be a personal choice between a person and his/her physician. NOT the vaccine pushers. The same ones show up on every thread.”

Yep, and try to portray those of us who are wary of an untested vaccine as tin foil hatters or something.

There is a big difference between refusing a vaccine for say polio, and a the flu.

[netmilsmom]

I fully agree with you.

I’ve had the flu before. I’ve had flu shots before. I’ve been sick from the flu, I’ve gotten sick after both shots. So did my DH. So I will no longer shoot up just to get sick.

Neither will my kids.

We are healthy, exercise and eat right.
We’ll live.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

Did you see the thread on here yesterday about the new theory about MS? It’s worth tracking down. Good luck.

[mysterio]

This should be a personal choice between a person and his/her physician. NOT the vaccine pushers.

Agreed. Just don't invent lies about the vaccine, such as it will make you sick, give you the flu, give you horrible condition X, "I got the flu from the vaccine," etc.

If you don't get the vaccine, you have my full support. If you lie about the vaccine and post "natural medicine" blogs as support of those lies, I will show up and debunk it on every thread you post.

The reason is that you have the right to risk your own life with the flu. If you want to convince someone else to risk their life, you need to post accurate information about the flu vaccine instead of woo.

The flu shot is dangerous to those with egg allergies. Soon it will be made by cell culture methods and will be available to those with egg allergies. And there's a one in one million dose co-occurrence of GBS that hasn't even been directly linked to the shot. And you can also get GBS after having the flu. Those are the facts.

[netmilsmom]

>>If you lie about the vaccine and post “natural medicine” blogs as support of those lies, I will show up and debunk it on every thread you post.<<

And if someone says that they have had side effects that are the same as the flu, you berate them and tell them, they can’t get the flu from the vaccine. I told you that I would be on every thread where you say this and state these facts,

Wrong in two ways.
1. The nasal vaccine is live and DOES give one the virus. A weakened virus but a virus all the same.

2. “The flu” being the general term used to describe a group of symptoms. It’s used generically like “Band-Aid” Not a single person who comes onto these threads says that they got the virus from a vaccine, they say the got “the flu”. So YOU accuse people of “lying” when the group of symptoms come from their own personal experiences.

Disregarding a person’s symptoms and alluding to the idea of getting the vaccine anyway, is handing out internet medical advice. It is unethical and you are not a doctor.

[autumnraine]

I just got a flu shot a few weeks back and I felt like crap for days. I ran a fever, body aches, etc... Granted I didn’t get chest symptoms, but I felt like hell. I have had the flu once in 10 years. I’ll take my chances rather than KNOW I’m going to feel like crap for three days.

[mysterio]

And if someone says that they have had side effects that are the same as the flu, you berate them and tell them, they can’t get the flu from the vaccine.

You can't get the flu from the shot. It's unpossible.

1. The nasal vaccine is live and DOES give one the virus. A weakened virus but a virus all the same.

The nasal spray (LAIV) contains attenuated live virus. It's not recommended for those with weakened immune systems or asthma. Although I haven't read of anyone getting the flu from it, I suppose that would be remotely possible. When you "caught the flu from the vaccine," was the vaccine in question the spray or the shot?

2. “The flu” being the general term used to describe a group of symptoms. It’s used generically like “Band-Aid” Not a single person who comes onto these threads says that they got the virus from a vaccine, they say the got “the flu”. So YOU accuse people of “lying” when the group of symptoms come from their own personal experiences.

You can't catch the flu from the flu shot. It does, however, take two weeks to achieve full immunity from the shot. So if you catch the flu from another source sometime in that window, you'll still get the flu, and those who aren't aware that they can't catch the flu from the shot might think they caught the flu from the shot. But they didn't catch the flu from the shot.

Disregarding a person’s symptoms and alluding to the idea of getting the vaccine anyway, is handing out internet medical advice. It is unethical and you are not a doctor.

No, but I did take immunology and multiple micro courses at the graduate level and I stayed at a holiday inn express last night.

It is unethical to distribute incorrect woo about vaccines in an effort to scare people away from getting them, however.

[dragonblustar]

I received mine last Monday...no side effects at all.

I had to get one on Friday because I'm pregnant. So far everything is OK.

[dangerdoc]

Pot, kettle, black.

[netmilsmom]

>>You can’t get the flu from the shot. It’s unpossible.<<

Wrong. You cannot get the influenza virus from the shot, but the symptoms of a bad reaction to a vaccine are the same as “The flu” to a layperson. Note the difference between getting the virus and getting symptoms.

>>No, but I did take immunology and multiple micro courses at the graduate level <<

So? You can get a job at Merck, but when you refuse to acknowledge that an immunization can have a reaction that the layperson would call “the flu” i.e. respiratory reaction, you apparently either didn’t study past the pictures in the book or have never looked at real data on immunizations.

STOP telling people that it is impossible for them to have flu like symptoms as a reaction to a flu shot. You are not a doctor and not only is this wrong but it is unethical.
Only that person’s physician can make that call.

[netmilsmom]

>>Pot, kettle, black.<<

Well that added a whole lot to the conversation. *rolls eyes*

Sorry my FRiend, I don’t advise anyone to be injected with anything without his/her doctor’s approval. If anyone is doing that, he/she is also unethical.

Should someone take that advice and have a bad reaction, I would be really nervous to have given medical advice on the internet knowing how easy it was to find Buckhead here on FR.

I wouldn’t want a someone with an injury case looking me up. People REALLY like to sue nowadays. And there are enough FReepers that have seen the people who do this on every thread.

I’m just sayin’

[netmilsmom]

Me too.

[mysterio]

but the symptoms of a bad reaction to a vaccine are the same as “The flu” to a layperson.

Even the layperson wouldn't confuse one or two days of sore arm / low fever / tiredness with the flu. Unless that layperson has never had the flu before. The flu is vastly more severe than the side effects of the shot and lasts much longer.

Anyone having severe reaction to the flu shot probably is allergic to eggs. Are you allergic to eggs?

So? You can get a job at Merck, but when you refuse to acknowledge that an immunization can have a reaction that the layperson would call “the flu” i.e. respiratory reaction, you apparently either didn’t study past the pictures in the book or have never looked at real data on immunizations.

They can have a severe reaction if they are allergic to eggs. Are you allergic to eggs?

STOP telling people that it is impossible for them to have flu like symptoms as a reaction to a flu shot. You are not a doctor and not only is this wrong but it is unethical.

You're only going to have a severe reaction if you're allergic to eggs.

Trying to scare people away from the flu shot with woo is unethical. People can actually die of the flu. There's a safe shot that can lower the chances of that happening. Why woo-woos want to convince people to risk catching the real flu, I'll never understand.

[mysterio]

Should someone take that advice and have a bad reaction, I would be really nervous to have given medical advice on the internet knowing how easy it was to find Buckhead here on FR. I wouldn’t want a someone with an injury case looking me up. People REALLY like to sue nowadays. And there are enough FReepers that have seen the people who do this on every thread.

Just damn. Now we're talking lawsuits over an anon messageboard argument about vaccines?

Can they sue the woo-woos for lying about the vaccine as well?

This is about half a click past ridiculous. Have a good one.

[netmilsmom]

>>Even the layperson wouldn’t confuse one or two days of sore arm / low fever / tiredness with the flu. Unless that layperson has never had the flu before. The flu is vastly more severe than the side effects of the shot and lasts much longer.<<

No, many people have reactions that are much more severe. I’ve seen you and your mate disregard them.
You are NOT a physician. You are diagnosing those people who come onto threads and give their symptoms.

You’ve done it here
>>Anyone having severe reaction to the flu shot probably is allergic to eggs<<

Any of these vaccines and the CDC give a list of contraindications where a vaccine should not be repeated. Every one of them includes an allergic reaction. YOU are diagnosing that reaction and in turn, disregarding it.

It is not your place and unethical. Good luck if someone has a bad reaction on your advice. “I’m not a doctor.” won’t hold up in court. Especially with the amount of FReepers that can be contacted regarding the conversation.

[mysterio]

Everything I've posted about the flu shot is backed by clinical trials and the CDC. Feel free to click my posting history and check the links.

Your little lawsuit threat is about the lamest debating tactic I've ever seen.

Our back and forth is done.

[Ditter]

You can't get the flu from todays vaccine because there is no live virus in there to infect you. You could have already been infected with the flu virus prior to getting the shot, or during the 2 week period before you become protected.

You could have a reaction to something else in the vaccine, the preservative or you may be allergic to eggs but you can't catch the flu.

I have taken the flu shot for the last 10 years or so and successfully avoid the flu. I had the flu almost every year for years before that.

I did have a very minor reaction year before last. It was not the flu but a strange skin reaction that felt like my skin was freezing cold and creepy. It lasted less than an hour. I discussed it with my doctor and he said it might have been from the preservative so I made sure I got preservative free vaccine this year and had no problem.

I have not had the H1N1 vaccine yet but I hope to get it.

[SaraJohnson]

The flu mist vaccine contains live virus.

[Ditter]

Yes I know it does but it is only for children for some reason. The old type vaccine had a live virus and when my husband was in the USCoast Guard in the early 60’s he got sick every time they gave him a flu shot.

[netmilsmom]

>>You can’t get the flu from todays vaccine because there is no live virus in there to infect you.<<

“The flu” is a generic phrase for a group of symptoms used by lay people.

NO WHERE did I say that one can get the influenza virus from the vaccine.

But certain people constantly disregard reactions to the vaccine with the words “You can’t get the flu from todays vaccine “ Well many FReepers have had reactions. YOU saw your doctor. That is what every person should be advised to do. They belittle the idea that a person can have a reaction to a vaccine. It’s unethical.