Stop the Hysteria: The Vote on Health Care Bill Is Long From Being Over

November 21 2009 | jeveritas

[what's up]

trigger public option or a trigger co-op which in all practical form is a meaningless gesture because it is not going to be triggered at all in the future

Not sure why you think a trigger provision will not lead to the public option.

The condition for not implementing the trigger is that health costs must come down. There's no reason to think that health costs will come down in the private sector without reform...which is why many think the trigger will be inevitable.

I agree with you that the left is going to be pretty mad if only the trigger passes into law with no public option.

[jveritas]

You are most welcome. I am just stating basic facts and cutting through the fog of panic, hysteria, wrong facts, and irrationality that I have been seeing on FR regarding the Senate vote today.

[television is just wrong]

I hope so.

[Cboldt]

-- In fact the real filibuster that occurs often, kills many bills, that we often hear about is the one about ending the debate not starting it. --

More common recently, but happened back in Clinton era too, is killing a bill at the motion to proceed stage.

For each of these pages, search for the word "proceed"

Senate Votes - 111th Congress, 1st Session
Senate Votes - 110th Congress, 2nd Session
Senate Votes - 110th Congress, 1st Session

[doc1019]

Not under the current Democrat regime. If it makes it out of committee, it gets passed.

[jjm1776]

Maybe you will be right. Nevertheless, this God forsaken bill took one giant leap toward law today.

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.

[okie01]

We have yet to go thru the debate process and the REAL vote to pass the legislation. The real vote is where Lieberman could come thru and stop this thing.

Not exactly the case.

This vote was to open debate. Since the GOP announced a filibuster, it required 60 votes rather than the normal majority to open debate.

The next vote on the entire bill (including any amendments which might pass in the meantime) will be for cloture -- to close debate. That will require another 60 votes.

If it receives them, debate then ceases and they will then move for passage of the bill -- which would require only 51 votes.

If the cloture vote doesn't get 60 votes, then debate technically continues. But the practical effect will be to table the bill.

So, the cloture vote is critical -- essentially our last chance. There is little doubt that Dingy Harry can line up at least 50 Democrats to vote "yea" (Joe Biden could break a 50-50 tie).

Be careful, though, of Democrats who a.) vote for cloture, then b.) vote against the bill. There is room for as many as ten to do so -- which would allow the duplicitous SOBs to claim that they "voted against the health care bill".

[Swede Girl]

Enemies of freedom and enemies of this country....every last one of them.

[Swede Girl]

Enemies of freedom and enemies of this country....every last one of them.

[PROTESTBYPROXY]

All this is true but they no longer listen us. They have to go. Carefully because we will oust ours and they will keep theirs. Term imits perod.

[mek1959]

In my view, the so called “public option” trigger or no trigger has always been a red herring, a ruse of sorts. What the leftists really want is a mandate. The mandate ensures control over the populace and then, when fully implemented, the public option will come. Look for the head fake of “alright, we'll concede on the public option, but we've still got to lower costs, thus making sure everyone is covered is a good first step.” The leftists will claim a victory of sorts,Obama will sign it and the die will be cast.

[jveritas]

You are most welcome. Virginia does not have any Senate race in 2010. NJ has one and New York has one. I hope that Giuliani will win the Senate race in 2010. He is not a 100% conservative but he will be much better than anything we have seen from New York in a very long time. He is strong on national security, strong on defense, and fiscally conservative but he is socially liberal.

[ICCtheWay]

Not so fast there... I heard a report today that of bills that reach the Senate - and are voted by 60 votes to be brought to the floor for debate - average a 97-98 percent PASS RATE upon final vote... In other words - if in the Senate - a bill makes it to the floor - passage later is almost assured...

So much for process...

[mamelukesabre]

That’s because you’ve arrived the same place I’m in.

That’s the realization that my america is already dead...a dead man walking to be precise. If there is one more delay for execution...or not, what difference does it really make?

[Clemenza]

Giuliani is fiscally moderate, but would still be an improvement over Gillebrand.

[CodeToad]

Headfake. They fully intend to make this a Communist government and take over.

Arm Up! They Are!

[CodeToad]

Headfake. They fully intend to make this a Communist government and take over.

Arm Up! They Are!

[Man50D]

Senator Lieberman has said so many times, very clearly, and very adamantly that he is going to filibuster an end for the debate as long as it has any form of public option and he also said many times that he was going to vote to allow the start of the debate as he did today.

People need to understand something about LIEberman. He has a history throughout his career of claiming to take one position on an issue while supporting an entirely different position. It is how he was reelected. He just pulled the same stunt by supporting cloture and people are falling for his act just as they did during his last campaign.

Beyond that point, people need to apply some common sense. When given the chance to kill the bill by merely voting against cloture or allowing it to proceed only to face the much more arduous task of spending several hours speaking on the Senate floor to kill the bill, which one would a reasonable and prudent person choose? A prudent person would reasonably choose the former.

People need to also remember the purpose of cloture is to end or prevent debate. Reid wanted cloture for this purpose knowing the more debate the worse it is to pass socialist health care. Given this fact, he wouldn't have pushed for cloture if he didn't already have a plan in mind to severely restrict debate at the next step in the process.

This whole process doesn't pass the smell test. Something doesn't add up. We've seen some slick maneuvering to bribe Senators into supporting cloture. More behind the scene slick maneuvering will occur to prevent any in-depth analysis and everyone will wonder how could this happen all over again. Assuming otherwise is being naive. Make no mistake this was far more than just a procedural vote. It was confirmation there is enough support the bill all through the process.

[jveritas]

I heard this theory as well but in this case we have the following facts:

Lieberman is certain to vote against ending debate on any bill that contains the public option.

Snowe is certain to vote against ending debate on the current version of the public option.

Based on those two facts above it is certain the socialists do not have the 60 votes required to end the debate and move the bill with it current version of public option for a final vote. Therefore the current bill with the public option version it contains is DEAD.

[EagleUSA]

There is plenty to be upset about. The mere fact that these radical, power-mad nutcases have pushed this horror story this far says so. They fully intend to control YOUR LIFE, YOUR HEALTH, YOUR WEALTH, and any remaining American freedoms that will be left.

America better get real upset real fast about this.