I can't seem to help myself...
Posted on 11/21/2009 7:26:17 PM PST by jveritas
Today healthcare vote in the Senate was so badly represented by many on our side and of course by the media and was blown way out of proportion. In reality it is a meaningless vote. The vote today was only to start the debate and it is absolutely does not guarantee at all that the current bill in the Senate with it current version of public option aka socialized medicine is going to pass. In fact as it stands now this current bill is assured to be defeated because the socialists are not going to get 60 votes for cloture to end the debate and hence they cannot move the bill for a final vote. In other words the bill in its current form is dead.
Senator Lieberman has said so many times, very clearly, and very adamantly that he is going to filibuster an end for the debate as long as it has any form of public option and he also said many times that he was going to vote to allow the start of the debate as he did today. That is why Senator Lieberman has been for weeks the most hated person among the left wing lunatics. Many people misunderstood and misinterpreted what he has been saying and thought that Lieberman did not follow through on what he said he was going to do.
Senator Olympia Snowe has said that she is going to filibuster an end to the debate on this current healthcare bill if it contains the current form of public option. She wants a trigger public option which in practical political terms a meaningless thing that will never be triggered. In fact today she even voted against the start of the debate.
Now some will say that if the socialists do not get 60 votes to end the debate and move the bill for a final vote then they are going to use reconciliation or the so called “nuclear option”. This is very unlikely because for the use of reconciliation the bill has to go back to the budget committee or finance committee where it is going to be watered down significantly and just includes the insignificant trigger public option or a trigger co-op. Even very left wing Senators like Tom Harkin said that reconciliation will be a very bad thing to do.
What is the most likely scenario?
Most probably they are going to be able to pass a healthcare bill that contains a trigger public option or a trigger co-op which in all practical form is a meaningless gesture because it is not going to be triggered at all in the future. This is the bill that will go to Obama to sign it into law, the democrat politicians and their media will celebrate but their left wing lunatic base will go insane in a way that will shock many. The left wing lunatic base wants a strong public option (aka socialized medicine) as a minimum and is very much against a trigger public option or a trigger co-op because they know very well that the trigger means absolutely nothing and when this happens the left wing lunatic base is going to explode in total anger against the democrat party.
Excellent, two opportunities.
Thanks for the kind words—and for the welcome.
On the other hand, all the polls show massive and still-growing opposition to government-controlled health care and the enormous costs and deficits and rationing it will entail. Obama’s popularity is tanking, and his coat tails have turned into millstones. Opponents of the health bill are energized and angry and active. Two states just elected Republican governors, independents are massively shifting away from Democrats, and Republicans are leading on generic ballots. The 2010 midterms may well cost the Dems the House and most of their majority in the Senate.
Every Congressman and especially every Senator is a survivor of years of political struggle to reach his or her exalted position. Staying in office, with all its power and perks (and, for many of them, opportunities for corruption) is their overwhelming imperative. Yeah, there may be a few who are so ideologically motivated that they'd sacrifice their political futures for the sake of achieving government control of medicine, but not many. A somewhat larger group may realize that they'll lose the next election no matter which way they vote (either pissing off their base or pissing off the majority of the constituents), so they might as well go down voting for socialized medicine. But that's still not a big number, especially since they tend to have large egos and a capacity for self-deception.
So with that background, let's look at the political equation which Pelosi and Reid and Obama are trying to solve. Time is against them: the longer this drags out, the more public opinion moves against them, and the closer the 2010 midterm disaster looms. Pelosi had very little margin of error: The House vote was extremely close (although she undoubtedly had a few emergency votes in her pocket had more been necessary) and she had to compromise on the Stupak anti-abortion amendment. Reid has zero margin of error, since even a single defection can prevent cloture.
There are at least half a dozen Senate Democrats who are far more worried about their re-election prospects than they are about passing a health bill. I predict that the Landrieu $300 million “Louisiana Purchase” is going to backfire horribly. Voters may like a little pork and wink at a little log-rolling, but they become indignant when the bribery is too blatant, and I expect polls to show that in the next few days. Landrieu will be backpedaling furiously to try to prove that she wasn't bought off.
Similarly, each of those other Senators will be trying to demonstrate his or her independence from Reid by making a variety of demands, starting with the elimination of the public option. These demands will be incompatible with the demands of other Senators, and trying to craft amendments which will satisfy all 60 Democrats is iffy at best. Desperate appeals will be made to somehow unify because a loss would be even worse politically. But if it looks like even one Democrat might defect and block cloture, half a dozen others will be unwilling to walk the plank in a losing cause.
Even if the Senate finally passes some heavily-compromised and amended measure, melding it with the House bill in Conference will be even more difficult. Almost anything which is left in or taken out, be it the public option or anti-abortion language or immigrant restrictions or taxes or Medicare reimbursement rates, is likely to lose enough votes in either the House or Senate to prevent final passage. Competing blocks of Congressmen will sign letters pledging to vote against the final measure if their hot button item is either left in or taken out. Ditto for individual Senators. Doing so gives them cover with their constituents and an ironclad excuse for killing it.
As Pelosi and Reid search futilely for a formula which can pass both houses, the measure will continue to languish in the Conference Committee, and the election will get closer and closer. Eventually, in desperation, they'll report out a highly stripped-down bill just so they can get something passed and declare victory. But even that may not work, given the subsequent fury of the most liberal Congressmen and Senators and leftist groups like Moveon.org.
It's going to be scary for the next few months, no doubt about it, but there are still good reasons for optimism. And if the above projections are correct, in the end it will be popcorn time.
Ahhh I don't think you understand.
ANY bill is going to be costly and we can't afford it and it will NEVER GO AWAY.
Its like having a large weight dropped on your head...
Its no consolation whatsoever if they decide to use a two ton weight instead of a three ton weight. We are still going to get the same result.
“The Dems will push something through. They have to in order to appease their far-left base.”
And they will over-reach if they do. Legislators tend to forget there are three co-equal branches of government. The biggest hurdle of all would remain for them: the Supreme Court. There’s just no way they can get around that. Any version of this bill, if it passed, would be challenged.
But there’s also this: the drop in polls and the recent elections have the Democrats circling the wagons. They are tending to band together instinctively—the way the Republicans did after 2008. That said, I think good sense will prevail and a few mavericks will emerge to vote with the Republicans. We’ll see.
It's a Prisoner's Dilemma type of games theory situation. If all Democrats band together and pass a health care bill, that might very well minimize their overall losses. They'd paint it as a huge victory, and the mainstream media would amplify that spin. It would solidify their base, and if they did it quickly they could hope that the voters would move on to other concerns by November 2010.
However, there will be individual Congressmen and Senators who will be adversely affected far beyond the party average. If those individuals manage to kill it now, their survival chances will be higher than if they go along with the herd, or if they wait till later and are accused of playing it both ways (remember how well Kerry's "I voted for it before I voted against it" went over).
Since any one Democratic Senator can kill the bill, they all have to worry about who else might defect and leave them hung out to dry by voting for a losing cause. If one Senator defects, it's to the advantage of others to do likewise, since then no individual can be accused of being entirely responsible for the bill's defeat. Self interest and the uncertainty of what other Senators may do will thus make unity difficult to maintain.
Thank you for posting this, Jveritas.
I can't seem to help myself...
But they still will raise taxes through the roof while spending still more money than we can afford to print. In other words, even if all the medical crap were stripped out, it is a major tax and spend bill.
He’s talking about bills that pass out of committee and onto the floor for debate - only about 2.5 percent of those bulls are NOT enacted.
“Snowe is certain to vote against ending debate on the current version of the public option.”
This ugly rat is working closely with Hussein (how large her bribe must be), and has practically said she’ll vote in favor of passage once language is found to give her cover.
“it is over for them in 2010 and Obama will become the earliest lamest duck President in history.” Or the first dictator...
“When do we panic? After we lose?”
That was the philosopy B.OR used to avoid discussing these “health care” bills. “We realy don’t know what’s in the bill untill it is passed.” See how it worked out for him?
Per Senator Harkin, they will have the bill passed before Christmas, so that Obama can talk about it in his State of the Union. Remember Obama’s main focus -— his speeches. He wants to talk about it in January. His first SOTU address. Harkin said it is a done deal.
Because many will scream bloody murder at this tactic, many will be awakened in the wee hours of the night, thrown from their beds, cuffed, and their homes searched for weapons which will be confiscated. Also ensuring no armed revolt.
No one will be able to get the word out because selected sites will be shut down, with only the MSM remaining.
Since the Dems will be seen as saviors to the desperate public, as well as the only source of food, the Dems will ensure themselves of a permanent majority in Congress. Whereupon they will call a new Constitutional Convention and write to their hearts content (laws forbidding this will be ignored or worked around).
Hussein will become President for Life by “public” acclaim.
China won't object to the US default on the debt they hold, because Hussein basically sold the US to them for the sum of that debt - a cheap price for the Chinese.
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