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To: Floribama

Wow, you have objectively proven that objectivism is nonsense. In your world, a man who would, despite all of his self-preservation instinct, give his life for another, could be deemed selfish. I’m sorry, but nobody on a sinking ship is thinking about “spreading one’s seed”. Objectively, it is never is someone’s best interest to die.

Morality is that thing that tells us to do something against our self interest or instinct. My instinct is too take what I please from whom I please. My instinct is to cheat for monetary gain.

Morals tell me not to do those things, not self-interest.


235 posted on 11/15/2009 8:22:38 AM PST by LibertyJihad
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To: LibertyJihad

Again, that’s the problem, you presume to know what is in my self interest and I say you cannot know it. It seems self evident to you, but you may be confusing your self interest with my self interest.


237 posted on 11/15/2009 2:44:26 PM PST by Floribama
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To: LibertyJihad; Floribama
Morality is that thing that tells us to do something against our self interest or instinct. My instinct is too take what I please from whom I please. My instinct is to cheat for monetary gain. Morals tell me not to do those things, not self-interest.

In Atlas Shrugged, Rand puts forth a philosophy that is about more than just self-interest. The whole philosophy seems to come down to this quote:

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

That second part is important. It keeps the first part in check. In Atlas Shrugged, Rand does put forth a system of values. Her heroes - as flawed as they were - were honest in their business and worked hard. They didn't expect other people to sacrifice for them. Her heroes did risk their lives to save each other, but they did so because they chose to do so.

OTOH, Rand's antagonists in AS were businessmen who used government to crush their competition. So, yes, the antagonists were thinking of their own self-interests, but they expected others to sacrifice for them. They didn't live up to the second part of the quote above.

Also, in an interview, Rand said she believed there was nothing wrong with a person giving to charity. But, she said it was immoral for a person to give more than he or she can afford or take from his or her own children or spouse to give to others.

There are holes in Rand's picture. And there are things she said and did that made me cringe. But, I think most of us here agree with her overall philosophy, as stated above.

238 posted on 11/15/2009 7:57:28 PM PST by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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