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To: LibertyJihad; Floribama
Morality is that thing that tells us to do something against our self interest or instinct. My instinct is too take what I please from whom I please. My instinct is to cheat for monetary gain. Morals tell me not to do those things, not self-interest.

In Atlas Shrugged, Rand puts forth a philosophy that is about more than just self-interest. The whole philosophy seems to come down to this quote:

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

That second part is important. It keeps the first part in check. In Atlas Shrugged, Rand does put forth a system of values. Her heroes - as flawed as they were - were honest in their business and worked hard. They didn't expect other people to sacrifice for them. Her heroes did risk their lives to save each other, but they did so because they chose to do so.

OTOH, Rand's antagonists in AS were businessmen who used government to crush their competition. So, yes, the antagonists were thinking of their own self-interests, but they expected others to sacrifice for them. They didn't live up to the second part of the quote above.

Also, in an interview, Rand said she believed there was nothing wrong with a person giving to charity. But, she said it was immoral for a person to give more than he or she can afford or take from his or her own children or spouse to give to others.

There are holes in Rand's picture. And there are things she said and did that made me cringe. But, I think most of us here agree with her overall philosophy, as stated above.

238 posted on 11/15/2009 7:57:28 PM PST by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: Tired of Taxes
I see what you're saying. And, of course, there are holes in Rand's philosophy (it's just a novel). But my question is, can't something be moral and in one's self interest too? I don't accept the premise that it's in our self interest to lie and cheat our way to success. Could it be that morality is a way for humans to live in a society without having to be in constant fear of an attack? Although it would seem to be in my self interest to steal from someone weaker than me, in the aggregate it wouldn't be in my self interest, because someone stronger than I is eventually going to come along and take my stuff or hurt my family. Only by living morally can we live according to Rand's philosophy, if you will, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
If you accept the opinion of some on this board it would seems that they believe that what Rand was saying was if it feels good, do it. That is a specious position, because stealing or lying is not truly in my self interest. Galt's gulch would have been full of con men if this had been the case.
239 posted on 11/16/2009 8:25:46 AM PST by Floribama
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