Maine split on gay marriage question (48% for,48% against,%5 undecided)

Raleigh, N.C. – Two weeks out from election day Maine voters are divided right down the middle when it comes to whether they will reject the state’s law allowing same sex couples to marry. 48% say they will vote to over turn the law while 48% say they will vote to keep it with only 4% of the electorate still undecided. Opinion on the issue predictably breaks heavily along party lines. 74% of Republicans are planning to vote yes while only 25% of Democrats are. Independents may end up deciding which way it goes- presently 50% of them support rejecting the law with 44% in opposition. Older voters are strongest in their support of cutting off gay marriage. 54% are in support with 40% opposed. Senior citizens can often dominate the electorate in low turnout elections so the ultimate fate of this measure may lie in how many younger people get out to the polls and vote. There is a strong gender gap on the issue with 53% of men but only 43% of women wanting to reject the law. It’s also interesting to note that while white voters oppose undoing the law by a thin 47-45 margin, nonwhite voters in the state support rejection by a 55-35 margin, creating the overall tie. “The fate of Question 1 is going to be decided by which side does a better job of mobilizing their supporters to get out and vote,” said Dean Debnam, President of Public Policy Polling. “Voters in the state know where they stand on the issue and now it’s just an issue of who shows up.” PPP surveyed 1,130 likely voters from October 16th to 19th. The survey’s margin of error is +/-2.9%. Other factors, such as refusal to be interviewed and weighting, may introduce additional error that is more difficult to quantify. Complete results are attached and can be found at www.publicpolicypolling.com.

You have to be kidding me.

You said something wasn't in the Bible. I provided the verse showing that it was, word for word.

You then said I denied Genesis.

How this is the case, I don't understand because those weren't my words, I just posted the Ezekiel verse you claimed didn't exist letter for letter.

God specifically gave a list of all of the reasons Sodom was destroyed, among which was homosexuality. You said he never said anything about Sodom not sharing it's wealth when yes, He did. It's right there - go pick up the Bible and open it to the verse! How can you deny that it is there? Seriously?!

What don't you understand about that? What, in that statement, was Biblically incorrect? Or am I only allowed to quote the few lines of the Bible you've actually read?

Christians like you are the ones that don't actually bother to read anything more than the flash cards they see in Sunday school. You know, we're supposed to read the whole book. You realize Jesus was a Jew, right? And you realize that Adam and Even could not have, by definition, been white because we're less than 5% of the population and have only existed in Northern Europe for a few thousand years.

No, you are the type of Christian that give us a bad name. You never actually read the Bible, make up what you want, and assume that anyone who disagrees with you has an ulterior motive. Sorry - I realize ulterior is probably a big word for you. Should have gone with something smaller.

Hobbes wrote about your brand or religionists... The false prophets like Bishop Gene Robinson...

LIARS!

Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness
Chap. xlvii. Of the Benefit that proceedeth from such Darkness

[1] Besides these sovereign powers, divine and human, of which I have hitherto discoursed, there is mention in Scripture of another power, namely, that of “the rulers of the darkness of this world,” [Ephesians, 6. 12] “the kingdom of Satan,” [Matthew, 12. 26] and “the principality of Beelzebub over demons,” [Ibid., 9. 34] that is to say, over phantasms that appear in the air: for which cause Satan is also called “the prince of the power of the air”; [Ephesians, 2. 2] and, because he ruleth in the darkness of this world, “the prince of this world”:[John, 16. 11] and in consequence hereunto, they who are under his dominion, in opposition to the faithful, who are the “children of the light,” are called the “children of darkness.” For seeing Beelzebub is prince of phantasms, inhabitants of his dominion of air and darkness, the children of darkness, and these demons, phantasms, or spirits of illusion, signify allegorically the same thing. This considered, the kingdom of darkness, as it is set forth in these and other places of the Scripture, is nothing else but a confederacy of deceivers that, to obtain dominion over men in this present world, endeavour, by dark and erroneous doctrines, to extinguish in them the light, both of nature and of the gospel; and so to disprepare them for the kingdom of God to come.

You're an atheist? Then this was a pointless conversation because my world view cannot be separated from my Christianity. And you have no right to tell me what I'm supposed to believe according to your definition of Christianity.

And dude, seriously - you have way too much emotional energy invested in this thing to be arguing with me over whether or not things exist in the Bible, especially since you don't believe in anything.

The fact that you've gone from telling me verses don't exist in the Bible to telling me that I'm not a Christian makes no sense in light of the fact you don't believe there is a God and clearly have zero knowledge of scripture. You're probably a 14 year old kid. I'm not wasting my time on this anyone because you haven't made one useful observation about how the conservatives can take back over the government in light of the demographic challenges that are presenting themselves right now.

We can sit in an echo chamber and scream all day but I have one interest and one interest only: To get conservatives back in control of the government so that we can limit government involvement in the day-to-day lives of citizens. Your positions have no theoretical or practical foundation. I have just as much contempt for that sort of worthless screaming at the wind as I do the union supporters that talk about how they deserve $100,000 per year health care benefits. It's just a pointless conversation to have.

Again, I have no desire to discuss the mindless rantings of an atheist who is foolish enough to attempt to use theologians to discredit a position in which he himself does not believe.

You're an atheist. You don't believe God exists. You don't believe in Jesus Christ. I have absolutely no interest in your opinion on the matter. You're wasting your time.

Someone else who actually believes in Christ, who wants to come along and say, "Hey - but what about [insert verse here]. You need to think of it this way." is useful. As a Christian, I value that input because if I'm wrong on something, I want to know.

But I don't want an atheist telling me what is or is not in the Bible when I can open for myself and find the verse.

Of course marriage is for kids; that's my belief as Christian. Unlike you, I don't think we need to string people up, call them things like "sheet heads", use racial epithets or point to self-serving "it's common sense" arguments that have no rational or theological basis.

But you, of course, think the big "G" government will solve all of our problems. Heck, let's use it like a stick, just like the liberal left does. Why not? That philosophy served us so well over the past decade. While we're at it, let's tell blacks they can't married, force women to work back at home, and since you're an atheist, we can use the government to ban religion altogether - surely you'd support that? People like me, with our silly Christian beliefs are certainly an impediment to your idea of a religion-free world.

Your very existence is the reason I believe in limited government. The idea of other people being able to tell me, or my family, or my friends, or my church how to live is repulsive. It makes me thank God (yes - GOD) that I was born and raised in the United States.

Oh. Not another RINO and his demographics speech. We are conservatives because we believe there is such thing a right and wrong. We believe in what is right. This situation has never been about control of private consensual relationships. No one is invading anyone’s bedroom. The gays are bringing their bedroom antics out into the street, all over the airwaves, any place they can in order to desensitize people.

That children are easily duped and fall pray to these tactics does not surprise me. That adults fall for them causes me great dismay. That a person who calls himself a Christian has fallen under their spell causes me question that person’s judgement. If he has decided he can believe something that is against what the Bible itself says, I have to question how well the person has actually read the Bible. Jude 7 says plainly that God destroyed Sodom because they decided to go after strange flesh (sodomites).

Paul says that homosexuals have been given reprobate minds. Which means their minds don’t function properly. Because of that fact I have no reason to agree with anything they think up or imagine.

Your argument about older voters makes a very poor assumption that as one ages one’s beliefs remain stagnant. 1. You have absolutely no idea these children’s beliefs will remain the same. 2. The reason they have not changed is because so few conservatives understand well enough to explain to them why it is important that marriage be protected as it has always been defined.

This is for you dear child. It is not your fault you believe as you do. You are just a symptom. You’ve been brainwashed. Back in the 60s the communists said they would do it to you and they seem to have had some success with you. But marriage was not created by gays, govt., or the communists. It was instituted by God and adopted by society as the first unit to protect and defend society.

Marriage perpetuates society by instructing its newest members (children), how to relate to the society. Males learn how to be men and females learn how to be women. Both men and women learn how to relate to authority and how to live in society. Young men learn how to relate to young women and visa versa. Homosexuals as parents ruin that opportunity to learn.

Homosexual male parents are not mothers or fathers no matter what role they play. They can only pretend to be one or the other. Because a homosexual male who takes the man’s role does not behave the way a real man behaves and a homosexual male that takes the female’s role does not behave the way a real woman would behave. The same can be said for homosexual women as parents. There was no accident made when God kept two males or two female from being able to procreate. Sex role confusion, not knowing how to behave with the opposite sex, as well as their own sex is a problem for children who grow up in these confused homes.

Hopefully, when you and others like you are older with children and have a better understanding of the need for a stable society for your children to grow up in, you will change your minds and the communist brainwashing will be reversed.

Conservatives need to continue to support that which is right, whether everyone believes it or not. If you are a Bible believing Christian you should understand why that is the case. If you don’t understand, I suggest you start attending a Bible believing church and stay away from the ELCA.

As a Christian, we have beliefs on the mortality of homosexuality but to say it was 100% responsible for the destruction of Sodom is blatantly against scripture because God spelled it out to warn his children that they were committing the same sins and would be obliterated if they didn't repent and turn back to Him.

This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it. - Ezekiel 16:49-50

There were hundreds of cities in the world who were proud, had excess food and prosperous ease, that did not aid the poor and needy and were haughty. Why were they also not nuked? Because they didn't practice abomination on the scale that Sodom did. Is homosexuality the only sin for which Sodom was nuked? No. But it is the major sin. All those other sins can be forgiven. Homosexuality is an abomination and both practitioners of it are to be killed. The OT doesn't leave any room for them to spread the disease further.

You're arguing that if we allow gays to get married, there will be more homosexuality in America and thus we will be more like Sodom? ... Do you think God only hates sin when its public?

If we legally sanction homosexual marriage, then we, the government, the church, the people of this country, become equally guilty of the sin as we are encouraging it. If this country allows homosexual marriage then God must nuke us or apologize to sodom.

(and yes, allowing homosexual marriage will result in more homosexuals as they will then press harder for homosexual adoptiona nd greater access to kids. Homosexuals do not reproduce but they do recruit. Any exposure of children to homosexual behavior is child abuse as it spreads the disease.)

Not another RINO and his demographics speech. We are conservatives because we believe there is such thing a right and wrong.

I agree there is such a thing as right and wrong, and if you look through my positions, we probably agree on 99.99% of things so you cannot in good faith call me a RINO.

What I'm trying to say is that no one has addressed a way to "fix" the demographic problem. It does exist (if it didn't, the family wouldn't be as broken as it is now because of the 1960's and the influence that had on subsequent generations).

I'm trying to say that I think we ignore it at our own peril but I don't know how to fix it. You say we can turn it around (great! I hope so) but I'm talking about specific, tangible things that will cause it to turn around. Are you saying Christians need to go into the streets and start preaching again? Are you saying we need to launch legal fights? Do we need to buy television networks?

What, in other words, do we do? Everyone seems to think that to recognize there is a problem is to accept it. That's not true. As conservatives, we've got to come up with a game plan for addressing it. I want to know your ideas for how to accomplish that.

"If we legally sanction homosexual marriage, then we, the government, the church, the people of this country, become equally guilty of the sin as we are encouraging it."

Thank you. That is a theologically consistent argument and I understand and respect that. That comes from a place about being genuinely concerned about America and her soul.

The problem I have is the few people on here that seem to be for nothing, but against everything (illegal immigrants, black people, homosexuals, poverty, health care, Muslims, etc.) I want ideas and plans for how to fix the problem - simply railing against the symptoms does no good. As I said earlier, if Christians believe the television networks are to blame, why don't we buy them instead of conceding defeat?

My personality is geared toward not just wanting to know why someone believes as they do, but what they will do about it (specific plans) to change the culture.

The best example of what I mean is a thread on here earlier about a senior who wants the budget balanced but is angry at the government because they won't get an increase in social security due to the fall inflation! That's the sort of logic that absolutely makes me angry, even if I agree with them (in this case, on balancing the budget). Everyone wants something but they aren't willing to make any sacrifice to get it.

I apologize for being so cynical before but we have had so many ‘I’m a conservative just like you but we have to get away from a) being against gay marriage or b)social conservatism entirely,’ it is as though some anti conservative seminar had finished and all the lib trolls came here to try out what they had learned.

Each and every one of them sound exactly the same and they have the exact same flaw. They want to abandon long held proven conservative beliefs because they can’t win debates with kids who feel instead of think because they have never been taught to reason logically. They believe in their feelings and feel things should be a certain way whether it makes sense or not. Being just as unreasoning and illogical, these people agree with the kids and “feel” we should all abandon God and our beliefs because we can’t win an argument with the kids any way.

Not one of the “so called” conservatives can honestly explain why any form of conservatism works better than liberalism. It is just a side for them to choose to be on. They act as though liberal ideas are equal in validity to conservative ideas when nothing could be further from the truth.

Conservatism is better because conservatism works. Conservatism works because it is an extension of the laws laid down from the beginning. God created this earth and established the laws governing it. When we decide to turn our backs on God’s laws it is like someone turning their back on the law of gravity. They can shout and scream and say it’s not true all they want. But that does not invalidate gravity. You walk off the top of the Empire State Building and you are going to fall. You keep thumbing your nose at God and you can expect something will happen sooner or later.

Most of these poor children today have no real understanding of what or why they should do as they are told. They have grown up thinking their parents make rules just to control them to become adults who think laws are written to control them and that God is just trying to control them and have His way. They don’t realize that what they feel does not matter, the rules have been established from the beginning in a way that He will have His way no matter what they believe. Just as our parents warn us not to touch the hot stove or a hot iron or not to cross a busy street, God is protecting us with His laws. He’s not trying to control us. The free will He gives us to choose is proof of that. But, we violate those laws at our own peril.

We need more Christians out there who do understand the Bible to actually teach people how it relates to them personally on an everyday basis. We need to stop running from battles we have difficulty winning and stand for what God tells us is right. Hanging out on street corners yelling is now a cliche, so I doubt it would have much effect, but having knowledgeable Christians speaking to people they know would be a tremendous help.

My tag line, II Chronicles 7:14, contains our greatest hope for success. If we do as the Bible says and make a stand for the Lord, we are honoring God and He will make sure that we accomplish His will. When we decide that we should give in to the evils of the world, we look no different from Sodom and we will suffer the consequences.

Here is my suggestion to you. Sit down and educate yourself first, walk in God’s ways and stand for God’s laws. When you can explain to others why gay marriage is not the way to go, such that you aren’t running away ready to join the other side, you’ll have a start on the knowledge you need. Then you can start working on friends your age.

Rush Limbaugh, and others have mentioned it before, conservatives need true conservative leaders. People who understand the whys, why conservatism is better and can effectively explain it. We are sorely lacking that today.

I think you’re absolutely right on your last point - there are no strong conservative leaders who are adequately explaining to people the long-term dangers of a liberal agenda in the United States and that could have a lot to do with where we are.

I’ve said in some of my economics and finance postings that several of my friends truly believe, with all of their heart, that people like me should pay 70%+ income taxes because there are poor people in the nation and I have more than I need. I try, desperately, to explain to them that the reason I work, and create jobs, is because I’m motivated by stuff that may not make any sense to them at all (e.g., classical music tickets instead of world series tickets, a huge library of great books instead of jet skis, video games instead of a wine collection). Right now, I get those things by building a business which, the byproduct of is, creates jobs for the United States. If they take away my ability to work toward those things, why on earth will I show up to the office in the morning? It would be a pointless endeavor.

They really don’t see the connection. It scares me because I think we’re at a place where a confiscatory tax could actually happen and it would do tremendous economic damage to the nation.

On the social issues, I hate to say it because I don’t agree with litigation as a tool, but I think the Christian right needs to be just as willing and aggressive to sue businesses and people that abridge their freedom of speech and religious expression. We cannot concern ourselves with being “polite” anymore when you hear stories of people being fired for expressing their heartfelt, religious beliefs.

All of my concern on the religious front comes from fear of the government getting involved. As I said earlier, I’m a student of history. If our ancestors were willing to die for questions about sacraments and whether or not Mary remained a virgin, I cannot imagine what would happen if we suddenly introduced that in schools or the public square. That’s why I think, as Christians, the best option is to support Christian schools and put children and resources into them (that’s what I mean when I say a workable solution).

I think what really concerns me is that there are a very, very small group of people that believe you are have bad intentions if you try to look at any problem from a pragmatic point of view. I’m a little too rational in everything (as my family constantly reminds me). I also have a habit of trying to “fix” things. I believe freedom of speech and religions are rights worth dying for. It just scares me when I hear people openly advocate violence or the ballot box to infringe on other peoples’ private lives.

In other words, even if I agree with something, it scares me because I always wonder, in the back of my mind: If I open this door, how long until they use it on me? Christians were silenced in Europe during the second world war.

Perhaps the best way to sum it up is as follows: I despite the KKK with a passion. Yet, I think for freedom of speech to mean anything, the government should not have a right to tell them they cannot exist. The moment the big “G” government is given that power, who is to say they won’t use it on Christians? or Conservatives? Or Capitalists? Or Women? Or Students? Or ... the list goes on and on.

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