Women 'Soon' Will Serve on Submarines, Navy Secretary Says

American Forces Press Service ^ | John J. Kruzel

[SandRat]

WASHINGTON, Oct. 7, 2009 – Navy Secretary Ray Mabus yesterday said women soon will serve on submarines, suggesting a reversal of the long-standing ban by the Navy.

Appearing on Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart,” Mabus signaled that the Navy is moving closer to allowing coed personnel on submarines.

“It will take a little while because you’ve got to interview people and you’ve got to be nuclear trained,” he said, referring to prerequisite steps before a sailor is assigned to a submarine.

Officials previously have cited a lack of privacy and the cost of reconfiguring subs as obstacles to allowing female crewmembers to serve aboard the vessels.

But Mabus is one of several top Navy officials recently to call for an end to the policy. The Navy secretary’s comments yesterday amplify his previous endorsement of ending the ban.

“This is something the [chief of naval operations] and I have been working on since I came into office,” Mabus, who was confirmed as Navy secretary in May, said last week. “We are moving out aggressively on this.

“I believe women should have every opportunity to serve at sea, and that includes aboard submarines,” he told reporters following a tour of Northrop Grumman Corp.'s Newport News shipyard.

Navy Adm. Gary Roughead, chief of naval operations, acknowledged that special accommodations would be a factor in the decision, but one that’s not insurmountable.
“Having commanded a mixed-gender surface combatant, I am very comfortable addressing integrating women into the submarine force,” he said in a statement last month. “I am familiar with the issues as well as the value of diverse crews.”

Roughead said he has been personally engaged through the years in the Navy’s debate of the feasibility of assigning women to submarines.

“There are some particular issues with integrating women into the submarine force -- issues we must work through in order to achieve what is best for the Navy and our submarine force,” he said. “This has had and will continue to have my personal attention as we work toward increasing the diversity of our Navy afloat and ashore."

Navy Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, addressed the issue with the Senate Armed Services Committee last month.

“I believe we should continue to broaden opportunities for women,” Mullen is quoted as saying in response to written questions posed by the Senate Armed Services Committee. “One policy I would like to see changed is the one barring their service aboard submarines.”

Mullen, a champion of diversifying the services, said this month that having a military that reflects the demographics of the United States is “a strategic imperative for the security of our country.”

Biographies:
Navy Adm. Mike Mullen
Ray Mabus
Navy Adm. Gary Roughead

Related Articles:
Navy Officials Push for Allowing Women on Submarines

[Doohickey]

I spent two weeks underway on TR once. Day 1, someone drove a tractor off the flight deck. A few days later she stopped short in front of Leyte Gulf and messed up the brightwork on the fantail a bit. Never again.

[Indy Pendance]

My daughter has a hair cutting license, and made “MAJOR BUCKS” shaving Army heads. (It was good bar money) The going rate was $4, the guys would give her $10 just because she did it in the barracks. And “Gasp”, she shaved heads in Iraq for free! I don’t think my daughter could retire comfortably as compared to the navy gals.

[truthguy]

Do any of these idiots that think this is such a great idea ever spend time on a sub?

They don't think it's a great idea but they won't speak out unless they are retired. I know a retired colonel who I talk to regularly at the dog park I frequent. He an extremely nice guy and very candid. What he has told me is that officers are extremely unlikely to cross swords with politicians because it can end their careers. This is particularly true after you reach the rank of Brigadier or Rear Admiral. They want to get their time in and collect their retirement pay at full amount. We've seen presidents end the career of senior military men on a number of occasions.

I suspect that all the Navy brass think this is a terrible idea. I'd be willing to bet that 90% think women on surface warships is a bad idea. But none of them will say this. If you want real opinions, ask the officers after they retire and then they will tell you the truth.

[OCCASparky]

Not only no, BUT HELL NO!!!!

[Iron Munro]

We alreafy have Baby Boomers.

Soon we will have Boomer Babies.

[OCCASparky]

Oh, I can't wait to see what happens the first time one of these female "nubs" goes down into the torpedo room and ends up with a poopy suit full of Mobil red.

Not that hazing EVER happens on a modern submarine... ;)

[OCCASparky]

If I recall correctly, they needed to make toilet and bed accommodations for females. Since space on a sub is limited, they were discussing decreasing capacity of weapons systems to accommodate the woman’s facilities.

I've served on Tridents, 688's, and 637's. I've also been on Virginia-class SSN's. The habitability, IMHO, of submarines has actually DECLINED as one progresses. The habitability of a 637 was by far better than that of a 688, and that was better still than a Virginia-class. My 637 boat rarely, if ever, put skids down in the torpedo room. On an '88 or Virginia, it's expected.

Now let's discuss other sanitary issues like showering, laundry, and (ahem) other "products". Yeah, I can't wait for the first time San 3 gets plugged up because SN Nub-whathername decided to dispose of her monthly products down the head.

[OCCASparky]

I put up this scenerio before: put ten women on a 688. Since I am sure they can’t hot rack you have to put them in lower level berthing which I think has 15 racks. So now 45 more qualified men have to hot rack just so that the petticoat Navy can pat itself on the back. Thats almost half the enlisted on board. The beatings will continue until moral improves.

Oh, it's worse than that. Lower level (between TR and AMR) is 21-man. Granted, they DO have 9-man between After Crew's and the Doc's office, but that's typically for Goat Locker/JO overflow, or at least it was on my first boat. Oh, and which head do the men get to give up, and what happens the first time some guy in his flip-flops and towel...you get the idea...

[OCCASparky]

(Do subs even *do* 6 month cruises?)

REAL submarines do. And even if they're not underway the whole time (typically about 75-80 percent), if one gets preggo, they don't go underway. Think one unexpected loss in a division of 5-6 people doesn't hurt? I got an augment taken away from me one Westpac (and the schools I would have attended along with it) because someone broke his arm. That was just six weeks. Now what do you do if she's pregnant for nine MONTHS?

[Nachum]

The list, ping

[OCCASparky]

I was at sea 220 days one year.

Lightweight. 307 days underway or deployed my first year on my first boat. Didn't get much better after that, to say nothing of the shipyard.

[Pan_Yan]

Lower level (between TR and AMR) is 21-man.

I always slept in forward crews berthing, on both my boats. In LL berthing you always had to put up with the cooks getting into dry stores and the laundry going next door. I chose ten women for my scenerio specifically to take 9 man out of the running.

[Gay State Conservative]

I was at sea 220 days one year.

Kinda makes me glad I didn't join the Navy.And "Doohickey",this old Army desk jockey *loved* your "simulating submarine life".That,too,makes me glad I didn't go Navy!

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Well, as long as they paint all the subs bright pink...I have no problem with it. *SNORT*

You guys thought we lost scores of excellent military leaders during the Carter & Clinton years?

As Dear Leader says, ‘You ain’t seen nothin’ yet!”

(Retired Army, ‘77-’97.)

[OCCASparky]

Having a woman standing watch in Manuevering would make about 80% of the conversations we had off-limits.

AT LEAST 80 percent, and that's if you weren't including the outside watchstanders like ERS, RT, and AEA. Sorry, but guys would be walking on eggshells so bad that morale would tank, retention would go to zero, masts would go sky-high, and I don't even wanna THINK about the ball-busting that would go on at Beeman's when guys from "that boat" showed up.

Then again, someone has to make the duty-section dinner run to Santana's, right? (Shameless Sandy Eggo reference...)

[OCCASparky]

I know of women on the tender that would do the same thing to avoid getting underway for a two week OPPE.

Gawd, can you imagine what they'd do to avoid the "Vulcan Death March", aka ORSE preps? Or a TRE? Let's not even get into a Spec Op.

[Pan_Yan]

Didn't get much better after that, to say nothing of the shipyard.

Yep. I went from a high op tempo boat to new con. I should have known better. After the first couple of months of steam plant testing for 12 hours a day, seven days a week I could have used a nice quiet week at sea playing war games.

[50cal Smokepole]

Submariner PING

[Pan_Yan]

...this old Army desk jockey *loved* your "simulating submarine life". That,too,makes me glad I didn't go Navy!

But on the flip side I was an E-4 after six months and never crawled in the mud.

[mylife]

Thats gonna work out well for about 1 week