Posted on 09/21/2009 12:50:12 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Dear Old Friend,
It was wholly a pleasure to hear your theory about where the South ends, probably because any theory about the South will get a conversation going around dinner tables, at barber shops, in graduate seminars on Southern history, and just about anywhere else in these talkative latitudes.
Your theory is that the South ends where the last monument to the Confederate soldier can be seen. This would mean that Bentonville, up in the far northwest corner of Arkansas, and known far and wide as the capital of Wal-Mart, qualifies as Southern. This might comes as a surprise, or even an unwarranted claim, to folks in Arkansas farther south, who think of the northwestern corner of the state as Midwestern. Or at least Oklahoman.
If you think being considered Midwestern is a step up from Southern (and I am rather fond of Midwesterners myself with their open, friendly manner), then you're not a Southerner. If you think of it as a step down, then you're a Southerner no matter where you live. Or at least you're someone who prefers the distinctive to the bland.
I know where the South ends in Arkansas. Or begins, depending on which way you're traveling. It's at the Mammoth Orange diner in Redfield, Ark., colloquially known as the Big Orange. Check it out. You can have one of those big burgers while you're there. I wonder if they still serve Grapette sodas. An RC Cola and a Moon Pie might be too much to hope for in these all too advanced times.
The South ends at Redfield because Southernness is a function of mean elevation above sea level: the lower the altitude, the more black folks and black soil, the more traces of the plantation economy and culture, the more Southern. Which is why the Arkansas delta is more Southern than the Arkansas hills. Redfield is just before the hills begin, therefore it's on the uneven line of demarcation between North and South. Q.E.D.
I've often thought the Big Orange ought to put up one of those markers like they have out west to note the continental divide. Only this one would say: "Here the South Ends, May the Lord Be With You. (At Least as Far as Little Rock.)" On the other side, the marker would say: "Welcome to the South, Y'all." The welcome wouldn't be complete without that second-person plural. Not just geography and climate change when you enter Dixie, but the language.
So how come you find pockets of deep-dyed Southernness in unlikely places like the hills of eastern Tennessee or in the middle of Missouri? The then-little town of Columbia, Mo., where I went to school for a couple of idyllic years, was in Boone County, which at the time used to be called Little Dixie.
My explanation: Southerners on the periphery of the South have to be the most aware of their Southernness in order to hold on to their identity. The way you might find the most ardent nationalists of any stripe on the outskirts of the nation. See George Orwell's essay, "Notes on Nationalism."
Southernness, it turns out, is a moveable feast, for Southern is more than a geographical designation; it's a cultural one. Folks in Mississippi don't have to talk about being Southern; they just are, while the baneful tribe of professional Southerners seems to crop up most conspicuously in the outer reaches of Dixie.
There's also a Southern diaspora, which knows no bounds; you may run into representatives of it on New York's Upper East Side or in Paris' fashionable Sixteenth Arrondissement. Or in a simple little pension in Florence. Just listen for an accent that sounds like home and there the South will be, for the South extends far beyond the South,
The other Great Question of our time, or any American time, is: Where does the West begin? That's a column for another day. But one sure nominee would be Kansas City, Mo., though I've heard it said that Fort Worth is where the West begins while Dallas is where the East peters out.
As someone who's been lost more than once on a Dallas freeway, I can testify that Dallas certainly isn't the South. Indeed, those who claim the South fought the Civil War to keep Atlanta from happening may never have considered the possibilities of Dallas.
To be truly Southern, there must be something agrarian about a place even if it's a city. It must have at least a long-lost connection with an agricultural society to qualify.
Grits, black-eyed peas, hurry back, and all that.
Inky Wretch
lol
You don’t get more southern than east Tennessee. Or at least thats the way it used to be. The Yankees have all moved in and bought it up.
Exactly!
IMHO, the south ends on the western side of Missouri and west of Dallas. That becomes the west. Kentucky and the Carolinas and the Virginias are for the most part southern. And it goes all the way to the east coast. Florida isn’t southern. I don’t think it ever has been. I figure the south begins where the accent begins and ends where people have never heard of “nanner puddin’”.
;0)
ping
Some on the western 'side' of missouri still understand the meaning of general order eleven and jayhawker mayhem. We aren't the wild wild west or yankees or sincere southerners but we do have great bar-b-que...
If they serve grits and sweet tea, it’s the south :-) If the entire area shuts down with a forecast of snow arriving, it’s the south!
Where I live in NC (south of Asheville) it has totally been invaded by northerners. Asheville cannot even be considered a southern city and I avoid it like the plague. Hubby wants to move out west to Montana or Wyoming after we retire in about 12 years to get away from the yankees (no disrespect to northern freepers) but I don’t know if I can handle the snow/cold.
The Missouri and Arkansas Ozarks have been invaded by Chicagoland yankees.
Two minutes around these disgusting types is more than enough time to decide to avoid them at all costs.
The Mason Dixon Line is 100 miles north of wherever you grew up.
Lyndon Johnson’s “Great Society”? It’s the first thing that came to mind. Or maybe 1917 on Jekyll Island?
That’s a fine and accurate tour of the South and Dixie.
You know the difference between a hissie fit and a conniption, and that you don't "have" them, you "pitch" them.
You know how many fish, collard greens, turnip greens, peas, beans, etc. make up "a mess."
You can show or point out to you the general direction of "yonder."
You know exactly how long "directly" is _ as in: "Going to town, be back directly."
You know that "Gimme some sugar" is not a request for the white, granular sweet substance that sits in a pretty little bowl on the middle of the table
You know exactly when "by and by" is. They might not use the term, but they know the concept well.
You know instinctively that the best gesture of solace for a neighbor who's got trouble is a plate of hot fried chicken and a big bowl of cold potato salad. (If the neighbor's trouble is a real crisis, they also know to add a large banana puddin'!)
You grow up knowing the difference between "right near" and "a right far piece." They also know that "just down the road" can be 1 mile or 20.
You know and understand the difference between a redneck, a good ol' boy, and po' white trash.
You never assume that the car with the flashing turn signal is actually going to make a turn.
You know that "fixin'" can be used as a noun, a verb, or an adverb.
You know that the term "booger" can be a resident of the nose, a descriptive, as in "that ol' booger," a first name or something that jumps out at you in the dark and scares you senseless.
You make friends while standing in lines. We don't do "queues", we do "lines," and when we're "in line," we talk to everybody!
You never refer to one person as "y'all."
You know grits come from corn and how to eat them.
You know tomatoes with eggs, bacon, grits, and coffee are perfectly wonderful; that redeye gravy is also a breakfast food; and that fried green tomatoes are not a breakfast food.
You say things like, "Well, I caught myself lookin' .. ,"
You say "sweet tea" and "sweet milk." Sweet tea indicates the need for sugar and lots of it _ we do not like our tea unsweetened. "Sweet milk" means you don't want buttermilk.
You know that if you are with a couple of friends you could be with 2 or 10. The number doesn't matter.
You know you don't scream obscenities at little old ladies who drive 30 MPH on the freeway. You just say, "Bless her heart" and go your own way.
Texas and Virginia.
If you're referring only to the city limits of Birmingham, that might be partially true, but the metropolitan area is very much Dixie. Huntsville has long been home to many from all over because of Redstone Arsenal, and that area is probably less Dixie than most of the state. But the Birmingham area is Dixie, unless you think the fact it is a younger city disqualifies it.
You know you are in the South, when a smart-ass damn yankee
tells how to do everything bass akwards.
Bullfrog
To be truly Southern, there must be something agrarian about a place even if it's a city. It must have at least a long-lost connection with an agricultural society to qualify.
Okay, here we have a glaring contradiction. What, does the writer think Dallas is the home of the Cotton Bowl because no other city was interested? It may be the north-westernmost corner of the "South", but Dallas certainly qualifies under the "past connection with agricultural society" test.
Besides, the diner waitresses there smile with approval when you order grits. 'Nuff said.
Question? Dijuetyet? You are sure nuff from the south. And if you live in western NC you have to know the difference between a polk, sack and bag. Well there’s lots more but I hardly have time to tell’em.
What if we at least partially understand? (And BTW the same thing that happened to the South, in some ways, happened to the North too which is why I care. And now it's getting worse.)
ML/NJ
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