Colonel (O-6) 
Navy Captain (O-6)
Posted on 09/09/2009 4:26:04 AM PDT by myknowledge
WOMEN should be able to serve in all frontline combat units of the Australian Defence Force, including the SAS and commando units, under a controversial plan that could avert a looming recruitment crisis.
The push by Defence Personnel and Science Minister Greg Combet would remove gender as a criterion for selection for specialised categories of military service.
The Rudd government wants to lift the proportion of women serving in the defence force from the current level of 13 per cent, as demographic pressures bear down on defence force recruitment over the next decade.
Removing any gender discrimination for serving in combat roles would put Australia in front of its key allies, including the US and Britain, which continue to carefully restrict where women can serve in the front line.
Mr Combet, a former ACTU national secretary, told parliament yesterday the Defence Science and Technology Organisation would develop a new set of physical employment standards for the army that would accurately measure a person's ability to perform the broad variety of jobs in the modern defence force. "A priority of the government is to improve the recruitment and retention of women in the ADF," he said. "My own view is that all categories should be open to women. The only exceptions should be where the physical demands cannot be met according to criteria that are determined on the basis of scientific analysis, rather than assumptions about gender."
(Excerpt) Read more at theaustralian.news.com.au ...
Do you have any idea how many F-14s were lost in peacetime crashes and accidents? Were they all flown by women?
Right. My concern isn’t with competence, but politics. The issue in the Hultgreen incident was that she was fast-tracked through the naval aviation program simply for political/symbolic value.
Same for every woman since then?
so the fault is with the rules not the practice
The Men of the Navy are ‘whipped by Patricia Schroeder into lowering standards and your conclusion is that women can’t do the job?
Insanity brought about by men who refuse to fight.
And the more feminized the military gets, the less interest men will have in it.
Both the Russians in WW2 and the Israelis in their war of independence used women in combat roles. They stopped. One big reason they stopped is because of how men behave in combat when women are present. They take major risks to protect the women, and become enraged when women are killed. They decided that women in front-line combat was more trouble than they were worth.
Note that the Israelis continue to use women, but not on the front lines. Women do training and support, and they are the final line of defense for the children if the Muslims break through the men.
Colonel (O-6) Navy Captain (O-6)
The Israeli Army had women in combat during the 1948-49 Israeli war of independence. What’s wrong with it?
For you not to realize the fact that friendly fire is a fact of modern warfare tells me you know little of it. In one of our armed forces finest hours, WWII, 30+ C-47 transports and gliders were shot down in the invasion of Sicily, killing over 300 paratroops and glidermen. 200+ men were killed and hundreds wounded, to include General Lesly McNair, commander of US Gound Forces, during the saturation bombardment preceding Operation Cobra, the breakout from Normandy. In EVERY war and with EVERY army, friendly fire deaths are commonplace. Your attempts to malign SP/4 Pat Tillman’s comrades is calumny of the worst sort, given the chaos of the battlefield which can affect even the most PROFESSIONAL of troops.. I am speaking as someone who has been there at the sharp end.
Call me whatever but women don’t belong in war and certainly not on the front line.
Unless the gender ratio starts to drop below 85:100 (m:f)
See post #14.
“In EVERY war and with EVERY army, friendly fire deaths are commonplace” If you read my post and the one I replied to, you’d see I agree with you
And based on lessons learned then, they have NEVER used women in front-line combat again. See post #29.
Debunking the Israeli 'women in combat' myth:
It's time to debunk the myth, once and for all, that Israel's experience with allowing women in combat was successful and, therefore, should be duplicated by the Pentagon. It wasn't successful. It was a disaster by Israel's own admission.See also here"History shows that the presence of women has had a devastating impact on the effectiveness of men in battle," wrote John Luddy in July 27, 1994, for the Heritage Foundation backgrounder.
"For example, it is a common misperception that Israel allows women in combat units. In fact, women have been barred from combat in Israel since 1950, when a review of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War showed how harmful their presence could be. The study revealed that men tried to protect and assist women rather than continue their attack. As a result, they not only put their own lives in greater danger, but also jeopardized the survival of the entire unit. The study further revealed that unit morale was damaged when men saw women killed and maimed on the battlefield," Luddy said.
And Heritage Foundation article on women in combat
The only reliable record of women in combat is provided by Israel, a nation whose policy is widely misunderstood. The popular conception is that Israeli women fight alongside men as equals. The truth is that although Israel drafts both women and men for military service, Israel has excluded women from combat units since 1950.To be sure, female soldiers fought alongside male colleagues in Israel's War of Liberation, which ended in 1948. Because of the problems that this created, Israeli women never again were sent into battle. Explains military historian Edward N. Luttwak of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, who has written a book about the Israeli military: "Men moved to protect the women members of the unit instead of carrying out the mission of the unit." (Telephone interview, June 10, 1991.) Luttwak adds that women are integrated into the Israeli military at many levels, and conduct most of the training. Women also serve in the Mossad, Israel's elite counter-terrorist force. But women are excluded, Luttwak notes, from infantry and other combat positions based on "the pragmatic experience of 40 years." (Ibid.)
Agreed, if what you mean is that women do not belong in combat. They can serve in other ways.
No combat plus I don’t think that Women with kids should be deployed away from them unless they request it.
Civilized societies don’t allow Mothers to be killed in Wars nor take them away from their children.
John
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