Posted on 09/04/2009 1:52:17 PM PDT by greatdefender
FLINT, Michigan -- Kettering University student Brian Nichols had seen the campus e-mail alerts before -- a mugging, a break-in, warnings to be extra vigilant at night.
But the 2 a.m. phone call from a fellow student whose rental house had been broken into by an armed robber just a couple of blocks away had the most chilling effect.
"This term, it has hit closer to home. I'm to the point now where I feel like I have to get in my car and drive across the street instead of walking 100 feet," said Nichols, 21, of studying at Kettering's campus in the evening.
Nichols is among Flint-area college students who would like to see a recently introduced bill easing the ban on concealed weapons on college campuses in Michigan become law.
The bill, sponsored by Sen. Randy Richardville, R-Monroe, would remove college campuses from the no-carry zones for concealed weapons. The controversial legislation comes at the peak of safety concerns among students living in this urban community following three crimes against Kettering students barely two weeks apart last month.
College officials say such crimes are isolated and an unfortunate part of any big-city setting -- but that allowing people to carry concealed guns in college parking lots, classrooms and residence halls is not the answer.
"Of late, there has been an increase, but unfortunately we've gone through the same thing before. It's rare, but it has happened in the past," James Benford, chief of Kettering's campus safety department, said about recent incidents. He sent an e-mail alert last week with safety tips to students.
"We take their safety very seriously."
More than a dozen private security officers -- who do not carry weapons -- as well as two Flint police officers designated for the college and neighborhood serve Kettering students.
Students such as Nichols would at least like to see armed officers on campus. Nichols' friend lived in a private rental house near campus that was broken into around 2:15 a.m. Aug. 11 by a man who held a gun to a student's head and stole roughly $2,000 worth of equipment. The robber also tried to coerce the student into the student's car.
"They're still really shaken up," Nichols said." The day after (the incident), I know some students who went to apply for firearms. I think that's becoming more of a trend."
Just two weeks later, on Aug. 24, another student was leaving Kettering's academic building headed north on Chevrolet at about 10 p.m. when he was approached by three people who wanted to use his phone. He tried to run, but one of the men caught him and flashed a gun.
Hours later, another student was punched by a man on Joliet Street after refusing to give him money. The assailant stole $20 and fled.
Three cars were also broken into in the parking areas of Kettering fraternities on Dupont Street.
Kettering's public safety department advised students to be extra careful, locking doors of homes, walking with someone at night or using the campus escort service and removing valuables from vehicles.
The university also has explored an initiative to discourage landlords from marking houses students live in. Many say "Kettering rental" to alert students of three-month leases that match Kettering's co-op schedule.
The president of Kettering's chapter of Delta Tau Delta Fraternity, Tom Reineking, recently wrote an open letter to the city and Kettering President Stanley R. Liberty urging joint efforts to keep students in the city safe.
"Why is it that these students -- these contributing members of the community and society -- must live with both the fear and the reality of being burglarized or mugged?" Reineking, 21, asked in his letter.
But the Illinois native and son of a police officer, whose car was broken into while parked at the fraternity house, said he'd rather see beefed-up patrols of the Kettering area than guns on campus.
"I'm sure right now it's illegal for a reason. I don't think that would necessarily solve the problem," he said. "I think the only way to clean up crime around Kettering is to clean up crime around the city."
A handful of Flint college students become victims of mostly nonviolent crimes every year, with theft being the most common incident.
In June, two University of Michigan-Flint students were robbed by three people on bicycles who claimed to have a gun in the parking lot of the former International Institute, across the street from UM-Flint's First Street Residence Hall.
It's the kind of news that doesn't help the image of a city that's trying to fight its bad rap as dangerous and transform into a college town.
Perception was an important battle for UM-Flint as it fought to open its first residence hall downtown last year.
A flock of new college students moved into both UM-Flint's housing facility and the new Riverfront Residence Hall downtown Wednesday. Officials of both buildings have highlighted security measures, such as locked doors and surveillance, as a priority.
The only people with weapons on public campuses, including UM-Flint and Mott Community College, are police officers who work for campus safety departments.
Richardville has touted his bill, which would allow people to have guns on campus if they have permits to carry concealed weapons, as a way to deter and fight incidents such as the Virginia Tech shooting spree two years ago.
"Crimes occur on college campuses just like any other place," Richardville said in a statement on his Web site. "Students, faculty and visitors, who have permits and have undergone the proper training and background checks, should have the right to carry a concealed weapon for their protection while on campus."
But local officials, such as UM-Flint's assistant vice chancellor, Bill Webb, disagree -- as does the Presidents Council for Michigan's 15 public universities.
"I personally think there's potential for a lot of bystanders to be injured or killed if people had guns in a classroom," said Webb, who oversees UM-Flint's public safety. "I think it's a simple proposed solution to a complex problem."
I steer clear of both like the plague.
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I am very pro-gun but I am anti- college students carrying concealed weapons. Its far too difficult to discern who is mature enough and who isn’t. I’m sure I’ll get flamed, but I won’t answer a one of you. I was WELL trained by 22 to carry a gun. I knew all I needed to know, but I still didn’t have the maturity to handle the power of carrying a weapon.
I am pro gun but I completely agree. Gun toting college students would not be a good thing. I can just imagine all the jealous lovers quarrels and the depressed young people using their guns unwisely. Kids that were raised with guns around and trained to shoot, hunters and target shooters might be OK but I don’t think the vast majority on a college campus would fit that description.
I'm saying that I WAS NOT MATURE ENOUGH and I was trained about gun safety like most never are.
I really thought that, after the debacle (and massacre) at Virginia Tech, we would have finally learned enough to know that a classroom full of unarmed teens and early 20-somethings is JUST PLAIN STUPID. But maybe not. Maybe possible "immaturity" should keep our kids from being able to protect themselves as they sit in college classrooms.
I would agree that some may be mature enough. Many police officers are in their 20’s. I would agree it would be beneficial in the even that they come under fire (MOST military grunts are in their 20’s). I just cringe at the thought of some of them. I could be wrong. I’m glad I have not been flamed over this; I am very torn!
The students would still have to be 21 yrs old to carry in Michigan, so it would only be the upper classmen. I don’t have a problem with it, and I do have a CPL.
The courses I have taken for my CHLs have all been very heavy on the responsibility -- and consequences -- of carrying and of using a weapon against another human.
Some of you here are apparently disregarding the fact that those whom this law would allow to carry on campus have already had similar training, and are already legally carrying their weapons everywhere else. No one has advocated arming the general campus population.
As far as I can tell, all this law does is erase an arbitrary line that now reduces trained, responsible armed citizens into disarmed, likely victims -- whenever it is crossed upon entering the campus.
Perhaps you were -- as a student -- too irresponsible to be armed -- and remember those days well. Please do not project your recalled inadequacies on those who do not share them.
Perhaps you were — as a student — too irresponsible to be armed — and remember those days well. Please do not project your recalled inadequacies on those who do not share them.
Hear, Hear.
Well said.
Hey, you and I are on the same side. I was merely trying to clarify the issue at hand -- which you seem to be continuing to cloud -- By focusing on people like the ones you mention above -- who are most unlikely to go through the training and education to get a CHL in the first place..
We agree that the world is full of irresponsible idiots. That is, unfortunately, where we must live -- and survive.
However, the admitted presence of hoplophobic imbeciles and other incompetents is no excuse for allowing zones to exist where we are deprived of our God-given right to self-defense.
The proposed law allows those of us who are responsible to exercise our rights. It does not encourage hoplophobic, underaged incompetents to start carrying guns.
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BTW, you gave me a nice chuckle. Your 'friend' reminds me of the young airline clerk who shrieked and recoiled from my (opened-for-inspection) lockable hardcase -- exactly as if she had seen a snake -- when I asked her to verify that my (fieldstripped) handguns were safe to transport... ;-}
My Pops, you are a bit scary. Glad you are armed... </s>
Actually, what I am thinking about is all of the training and backgound checks that I had to go through (and similarly others that may be only 21 years old) to get a CPL, and yet we are restricted from carrying on school property. I have never been in a fist fight in all of my 54 years, even when I was at college in Southfield, Michigan (LIT). I believe that the CPL process is a good one, and that the people that go through the process should be allowed to carry on campus.
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