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1 posted on 08/27/2009 9:05:35 AM PDT by Publius
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To: ADemocratNoMore; Aggie Mama; alarm rider; alexander_busek; AlligatorEyes; AmericanGirlRising; ...
Special Atlas Shrugged Thread: Ten Years After

On September 8, our agent in New York will blitz publishing houses with our book, tentatively titled A Navigational Tool for Atlas Shrugged, which is based on the work done in these threads. We couldn’t have done it without FReeper peer review.

FReeper Book Club: Introduction to Atlas Shrugged
Part I, Chapter I: The Theme
Part I, Chapter II: The Chain
Part I, Chapter III: The Top and the Bottom
Part I, Chapter IV: The Immovable Movers
Part I, Chapter V: The Climax of the d’Anconias
Part I, Chapter VI: The Non-Commercial
Part I, Chapter VII: The Exploiters and the Exploited
Part I, Chapter VIII: The John Galt Line
Part I, Chapter IX: The Sacred and the Profane
Part I, Chapter X: Wyatt’s Torch
Part II, Chapter I: The Man Who Belonged on Earth
Part II, Chapter II: The Aristocracy of Pull
Part II, Chapter III: White Blackmail
Part II, Chapter IV: The Sanction of the Victim
Part II, Chapter V: Account Overdrawn
Part II, Chapter VI: Miracle Metal
Part II, Chapter VII: The Moratorium on Brains
Part II, Chapter VIII: By Our Love
Part II, Chapter IX: The Face Without Pain or Fear or Guilt
Part II, Chapter X: The Sign of the Dollar
Part III, Chapter I: Atlantis
Part III, Chapter II: The Utopia of Greed
Part III, Chapter III: Anti-Greed
Part III, Chapter IV: Anti-Life
Part III, Chapter V: Their Brothers’ Keepers
Part III, Chapter VI: The Concerto of Deliverance
Part III, Chapter VII: “This is John Galt Speaking”
Part III, Chapter VIII: The Egoist
Part III, Chapter IX: The Generator
Part III, Chapter X: In the Name of the Best Within Us
Afterword and Suggested Reading

2 posted on 08/27/2009 9:06:41 AM PDT by Publius (Conservatives aren't always right. We're just right most of the time.)
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To: Publius

When I saw the drift of this essay, I was immediately put in mind of this work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

A New Dark Age may be the best we can do.


3 posted on 08/27/2009 9:13:56 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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To: Vor Lady

This is an interesting read.


5 posted on 08/27/2009 9:28:49 AM PDT by LongElegantLegs (It takes a viking to raze a village!)
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To: Publius

Very cool article.


7 posted on 08/27/2009 9:37:10 AM PDT by Raymann
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To: Publius
...we are men and women. We learn, we enjoy, we grow complacent, we forget, and we pay for the lesson once again in blood. It isn’t fiction, it’s history...

... and our future.

9 posted on 08/27/2009 9:58:42 AM PDT by whodathunkit
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To: Publius

While I loved the idea behind Atlas Shrugged, I had the same thoughts about how such a small group of super-producers isn’t realistic. Also, the novel ends on a happy note as the bad guys’ government is collapsing, as if the hard part is over and now it will be easy for Galt’s people to rebuild society. But the reality is that a society once collapsed into anarchy is a VERY hard thing to rebuild! I appreciate Rand’s ideas but I just don’t have the optimism to think it would be an easy task. A Canticle for Leibowitz strikes me as the far more realistic scenario, unfortunately.


10 posted on 08/27/2009 10:03:15 AM PDT by mangonc2
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To: Publius; Billthedrill

When I addressed this in the other thread, I neglected one important detail. John Galt and Francisco D’Anconia did not do things on the spur of the moment. They planned. It is therefore logical that they would anticipate the world many of us expected and take steps to reduce the damage. Any considerations of what comes after, including my own, should be based on that premise.

I shall now cogitate. :)


11 posted on 08/27/2009 10:28:42 AM PDT by sig226 (Real power is not the ability to destroy an enemy. It is the willingness to do it.)
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To: Publius

Congrats guys!


13 posted on 08/27/2009 11:21:39 AM PDT by ladyvet (WOLVERINES!!!!!)
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To: Publius; Billthedrill

Congrats, guys! Very impressive work!


14 posted on 08/27/2009 11:50:24 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds ("The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.")
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To: Publius

Awesome news — you’ve invested so much time and put so much work into this project, it’s wonderful for you to get some recognition. Thanks for all your efforts!


15 posted on 08/27/2009 2:11:23 PM PDT by Fast Moving Angel (GOP: Stop listening, start doing -- we need new leaders!)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

Bump


17 posted on 08/27/2009 6:18:52 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: Publius
Ah, the Foundation Trilogy.

I should probably be ashamed to admit this. I'm looking at a copy on my shelf right now and it has been there for 35 years. Never have "found" the time to read it.

23 posted on 08/28/2009 7:39:14 AM PDT by Clinging Bitterly (He must fail.)
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To: ADemocratNoMore; Aggie Mama; alarm rider; alexander_busek; AlligatorEyes; AmericanGirlRising; ...

Bump for the weekend crowd.


26 posted on 08/29/2009 10:49:07 AM PDT by Publius (Conservatives aren't always right. We're just right most of the time.)
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To: Publius
The future in an Atlas Shrugged world...

A large percentage of problems will occur due to the rapid advancement of technology.

Free power changes the dynamics in more ways than could be forseen. Heavy industry ,yes even railroads, could become obsolete overnight.

Energy industries like coal and oil extraction would be only worth their value as scrap. Energy intensive production of materials such as aluminum and magnesium would be so easy that every home hobbyist could produce their own, the manufacturing requirements of nearby energy sources are now unnecessary. Sorry, Hank!

Although this is going beyond ten years, space exploration, for one, would be advancing at an exponential rate with unlimited energy, assuming the technology isn't restricted to earth. (Consider the westward expansion in the US in the 1800's). Colonizing anything that could be colonized would be the driving force for generations until a limit to this activity was found, and who knows what that would be!?!

Defense would be a trivial matter to those who possessed unlimited power. Perhaps a human scale bug-zapper surrounding a valley or an entire city. Those who controlled the power would be intimidating indeed.

An interesting point not made so far is that producing power is less of a technical challenge as storing it. Currently (pun not intended but would have been a good one) we can only store power in chemical form as in a battery or in potential form as done by holding water behind a hydropower dam for future needs. Galts motor seems to solve both problems.

The future in our world...

Well, not quite as rosy : (

Regardless of the current problems that we have been experiencing, the 'organizer' ( term used generically ) will be the supreme power figure as it has been in the past. The soldiers, doctors, tradesmen, teachers, politicians etc. will gravitate to a leader. Those who are talented at manipulating people will, by default, become leaders. This has always been the case. The only power we have is to select a leader who will work for our interests and reject those who do not.

Assuming we make it through a revolutionary cycle, the dynamics of our modern world will be incomparable to the past although our human nature will be unchanged. Put the two together for the purpose of prediction and maybe we can speculate with slightly improved accuracy. For example... One aspect of human nature that I find troublesome is the tendency for people to desire what they are told they desire. In the past, the lack of or delay in communications had a stifling effect on the interaction between the leaders and the followers. Todays instant communications will bring profound changes to this dynamic. Couple this change with another human trait, that of 'wanting to belong' to a group or movement and you can see that a quick riot or coup can be executed so fast that there would not be time to stop it. Summed up, it is the speed of communications applied by a charismatic leader using the well understood frailties of human nature, their need to belong and desiring what has been dangled in front of them, that will be a driving force. Organize a thousand nutcases with text messaging and a central control point and nothing could be considered safe (envisioning 'school of fish' here).

The solution to this unpalatable future is to educate ourselves and work within our communities to educate others of the responsibilities that our form of government demands. Reeducate the people who feel lost and out of control, demonstrate that our system is the best that man has ever devised and speak out when you hear the parrots saying things that are simply untrue. There will be no Cavalry coming to our rescue, the longer we let things go unchallenged, the more we'll have to undo.

Those who identify themselves as an individualist will have to seemingly go against their nature and join with others of a like mind, the individual being powerless against a group. This is not a contradiction of values, rather a realization of reality. To deny the need to associate will only give an advantage to those who oppose you.

In the absence of some worldwide conflagration, the existing technology will be entrenched well enough to at least allow us to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. I recall reading a TEOTWAWKI novel ( I believe it was Earth Abides ) some time ago that suggested that even though all of society had crumbled, the survivors had found a use for the lowly penny. Being in great abundance they were easily formed into arrowheads. This, I think would be at the lowest end of the possible collapse. It is my opinion though that people are able to adapt and do so readily. Without the suppressing influence of a large centralized government, people will reap the rewards of their efforts and will be able to enjoy the fruits of their labors. Just think, no 1040's to plan around!

32 posted on 08/29/2009 4:18:15 PM PDT by whodathunkit
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To: Publius

An interesting essay and one that should be fun to expand and expound upon!


40 posted on 04/30/2010 1:57:00 PM PDT by Redleg Duke (RAT Hunting Season started the evening of March 21st, 2010!)
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To: Publius

Coming to this thread by way of the more recent one about the just-wrapped AS movie (Part 1). If my comments are off-topic, I apologize in advance.

There’s a great series of SciFi/Alt-History novels that deal with a situation very similar to what could be expected in the post-AS world. Called the “1632” series (after the first book), the plot revolves around a circa 1999 West Virginia coal-mining town called Grantville (based closely on the very real WV town of Mannington) hit by a cosmic cataclysm and transported, intact, to Central German in the middle of the 30-years war.

While written in a very different style and with less intellectual heft than AS (more whimsical/tongue-in-cheek), and also with a decidedly different ideological bent (the originating author, Eric Flint is a big union guy - former UMWA - and undoubtedly a Socialist - many fans call him “Eric the Red”) as well as much suspension of disbelief (too easy assimilation by the “uptimers” into the variety of languages in use at the time), the series does talk very effectively about how a society more modern than AS (1990s vs 1950s) is able to adapt and assimilate with one significantly more primitive (late-Renaissance vs industrial post-apocalyptic). With the added wrinkle of existing well-established nation-states and true historical figures (Richelieu, the Hapsburgs and de’ Medicis and Barbarinis, the Inquisition and a King Charles I of England who learns about 20 years early what a then-young Oliver Cromwell will have in store for him) thrown in.


44 posted on 07/27/2010 3:42:33 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Publius

45 posted on 07/27/2010 3:50:42 AM PDT by Mojave (Ignorant and stoned - Obama's natural constituency.)
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To: Publius
although hers was a screenwriter’s understanding of history

gotta argue a bit with that.

"Alice Rosenbaum" was raised and schooled in Russia - was about 13 when the Revolution turned her world upside down.

However, in Russia, as in most of Europe, schools taught World History and they taught it well. They weren't bogged down with all the cr*p our schools are today.

She was precocious, teaching herself to write by age 6 and already writing stories and plots by age 8.

At university, she studied philosophy and history - and she had studied American History her last year in high school.

I suspicion she knew history, including Dark Ages, a dight better than only from a "screenwriters understanding."

48 posted on 03/14/2011 3:56:26 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("We stand together or we fall apart" mt)
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To: Publius
One might construct an entire body of fiction around this alternate world. It is a pity that Rand declined to do so.

No pity - Go for it!

Perhaps your book will be on the shelves constantly for the next 50+ years and become the most read novel in history?

Everyone sits on a different branch and gets a slightly different view from their perch.

It isn't necessary to tear apart another persons description of THEIR view - just present your own.

'reminds me of all the commentaries on the Bible, and even IN the Bible - all the pontifications of what Jesus taught, for example.

I'm with Jefferson on that subject. I have "Jefferson's Bible" - which is merely the words of Jesus, cut and pasted - literally - by Jefferson into a book of it's own.

I also have a beautifully "illuminated" book (illustrated in old Bible style illustration,) and the entire text is simply what would be the 'red letter' words in the Bible. It's simply titled: "His Words."

I'm of a mind that Jesus - especially considering who He was, was able to get across His message before He left. Although, admittedly, he taught in 'layers', for "those who have eyes to see and ears to hear." It's up to us as individuals to read and reread and "get it" - straight from the horses mouth, as it were.

I feel the same way about, say, Robert Frost's poetry, or Michelangelo's - or Norman Rockwell's paintings. They stand on their own and need no interpretations. They said, painted, what they had to say. End, fini.

They stand on their own. As does Rand's works.

Different writers, hatched in a different place, a different era, interpret the scene beneath their perch a bit different. That's fine. Write about your vision, paint your own paintings.

The saying goes: "Those who can't, teach."

I've often thought that could also be "Those who can't, 'critique."

No offense. Just my "view."

An aside: One doesn't have to reach back to the 'Dark AGes' for examples of how to live post 'civilization.' I grew up on little farm, deep in the country, in the 1930-40's. We lived, basically, as people had lived for hundreds of years - other than we had a car - but we could have gotten by without even that.

There was no electricity in area. Our 'running water' was a hand pump on the sink. We burned kerosene lamps and heated/cooked with wood stoves - our fuel cut from the surrounding forest.

A constant years supply of food was on hand - in the gardens, cellar barrels, gleaming canning jars - milk,butter, pork and beef in the barn. Chicken and eggs in the coop. Meat and fish in the woods and waters. Fruits (apples and cherries) and berries on the land. We had a GOOD life. My grandparents never worked for anyone else.

Right now, you might be surprised at the thousands of people across this county who are already or in preparation to be able to live that way again. They are preparing with great purpose. They are networking. Many communities already have bartering systems - some even their own 'money' - up and running.

There are many today that wouldn't be in The Gulch when the SHTF - but they will not be helpless - NOR defenseless.

You might enjoy this story, as it pertains to a non-dollar system.

http://www.realitysandwich.com/berkshires_kicking_dollar_habit

Even the bank accepts their 'money.' There are bartering networks across the country.

Some states, even now - I think Utah and Georgia? - are reading their own in state monetary system, their own currency.

I could go on - but enough already. The Tea Party folk are a testament of the people that will be able to roll up their sleeves, dig in and create survivable communities that would "seed" the recovery - or maybe it isn't 'recovery' we want or need, but redirection of our country. Jefferson's dream was to develop this country as 'agrarian" - be the breadbasket of the world and trade for manufactures good - leaving the manufacturing and big cities overseas - his rationale: They breed crime and corruption. Who can argue with that.

Just maybe, like it or not, we'll soon have the chance to redecide that proposal.

In the meantime, as bad as it is and may well be - We'll weather the storm better'n most think...

50 posted on 03/14/2011 5:32:23 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("We stand together or we fall apart" mt)
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To: Publius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCPEBM5ol0Q

City farming


52 posted on 03/14/2011 5:51:20 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("We stand together or we fall apart" mt)
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