Boeing 787 may not fly this year

Seattle Times ^ | 07/22/09 | Dominic Gates

[AngelesCrestHighway]

The structural flaw that delayed the first flight of the 787 Dreamliner is more complex than originally described by the company, and the plane's inaugural takeoff is likely at least four to six months away, say two engineers with knowledge of Boeing's problem.

"It's got to take at least three to four months just to get something installed on an airplane," said a structures engineer who has been briefed on the issue. "It's definitely a costly fix to go and do this work."

[AFPhys]

Saying this was a major flaw is a completely false characterization. It was not a major flaw. It was found in testing only at 150% of the maximum stresses that the aircraft was expected to encounter. It is expensive to modify the prototype only due to the area that it is located, and the construction sequence. For the aircraft itself, any added cost will be minimal, if any. In addition, the “flaw” would not have resulted in catastrophic failures, and the creeping deterioration would be discovered during refueling and cursory external inspection well before any major failure occurred. Look at my other posts, above, too, and critically read the whole article.

[2CAVTrooper]

"Gee adhesive metal bonding and testing ,fasteners, Panel assembly techniques, Fly by wire." And HOW was that technology "stolen"? Do you have any proof? And using your juvinile train of "thought", if they stole the technology as you claim, then that means that GM, Dodge, and Ford stole the technology for automobiles, and the internal combustion engine. And Boeing stole the technology for jet aircraft, and winglets since it was the Europeans who developed them too. 1879: Karl Benz, working independently, was granted a patent for his internal combustion engine, a reliable two-stroke gas engine, based on the same technology as Nikolaus Otto's design of the four-stroke engine. Later, Benz designed and built his own four-stroke engine that was used in his automobiles, which were developed in 1885, patented in 1886, and became the first automobiles in production. 1885: German engineer Gottlieb Daimler received a German patent for a supercharger 1893 February 23: Rudolf Diesel received a patent for his compression ignition (diesel) engine. 1897 English engineer Frederick W. Lanchester patented wing end-plates as a method for controlling wingtip vortices. 1903 - Konstantin Tsiolkovsky begins a series of theoretical papers discussing the use of rocketry to reach outer space. A major point in his work is liquid fueled rockets. 1903: Ægidius Elling builds a gas turbine using a centrifugal compressor which runs under its own power. By most definitions, this is the first working gas turbine. 1908: René Lorin patents a design for the ramjet engine. 1910: Henri Coandă builds and flies the world's first jet powered aircraft, 1916: Auguste Rateau suggests using exhaust-powered compressors to improve high-altitude performance, the first example of the turbocharger. 1921: Maxime Guillaume patents the axial-flow gas turbine engine. It uses multiple stages in both the compressor and turbine, combined with a single very large combustion chamber. 1926: Alan Arnold Griffith publishes his groundbreaking paper Aerodynamic Theory of Turbine Design, changing the low confidence in jet engines. In it he demonstrates that existing compressors are "flying stalled", and that major improvements can be made by redesigning the blades from a flat profile into an airfoil, going on to mathematically demonstrate that a practical engine is definitely possible and showing how to build a turboprop. Oh, and you forget that the europeans have been developing aircraft for just as long if not longer than Boeing has been around. Let's see, Boeing was incorporated in 1916 Fokker: 1912 Armstrong-Whitworth: 1912 Breguet Aviation: 1911 Bristol Aeroplane Company: 1910 Dornier: 1914 Flugzeubau Friedrichshafen (Arado): 1912 Junkers: 1914 Bayerische Flugzeugwerk (Messersmitt): 1916 Looking at the histories of the above companies, they've all merged and passed on their knowhow over the years to BAE Systems and EADS.

[Cheetahcat]

Dude you miss the point by a Mile or a 100, Boeing was doing it first and better put Jet air travel into everyday life with the 707 and BTW the B-52 in its 5th generation of service Boeing engineers were in launch control Apollo 11 for christ sakes.

[2CAVTrooper]

No, YOU and your fellow Boeing cheerleaders are the ones who miss the point.

And where is the PROOF that supports YOUR CLAIM that Airbus “stole” technology from Boeing?

[Cheetahcat]

“And where is the PROOF that supports YOUR CLAIM that Airbus “stole” technology from Boeing?”

OK what Jetliners were they building in the 1950's and how many?

[2CAVTrooper]

Deflecting the issue again?

YOU made the claim that Airbus stole technology, and you can’t back up your claim.

“OK what Jetliners were they building in the 1950’s and how many?”

The predecessor to Airbus was De Havilland who was incorporated into Hawker Siddeley, who merged with British Aircraft Corporation and Scottish Aviation. This new company became British Aerospace which later joined Airbus to build airliners.

The De Havilland Comet’s first flight was in 1949 and first entered service in 1952 or 5 years before the Boeing 707 ever flew.

I could do this all day, while you keep stalling because you can’t back up your claim that Airbus “stole” technology.

[editor-surveyor]

"And not that long ago we were all laughing at Airbus."

Airbust is too sad for a laugh. Fly at your own risk. - At least Boeing fixes their problems.

[editor-surveyor]

"Boeing used to be a solid engineering firm. This 787 debacle is the perfect example of how gov't-sponsored corporate welfare and excessive liberal work policies just wastes a company away to a hollowed shell"

So Boeing is becoming Airbust?

[Cheetahcat]

“The De Havilland Comet’s first flight was in 1949 and first entered service in 1952 or 5 years before the Boeing 707 ever flew.”

Right LOL talking real working aircraft here. try again roll out was 1954 and Boeing DID not go with the Break here Square windows and managed to keep the engines out of the wing structure BTW why did that De Havilland thing stop flying eer scrapped and 707’s put in its place?.1010 707’s were built then the 720’s variants.. Try Again

[2CAVTrooper]

This is now the 4th time where you refused to back up the claim you made here:

“new kids on the block using technology lifted from the real guys.
36 posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:34:26 PM by Cheetahcat”

You claimed that Airbus stole the technologies of “adhesive metal bonding and testing ,fasteners, Panel assembly techniques, Fly by wire” from Boeing.

So now is the put up or shut up moment for you......

Show us (meaning everyone who reads this thread) where Boeing holds the patents for those processes and technologies that YOU CLAIM Airbus “stole”.

[Cheetahcat]

well lets see Ace, one company builds 14000 ++++ Airliners (forgetting War birds) developing systems,Assembly techniques.Tooling Machinery, Testing systems and fixtures and then Party 2 pops on the scene and starts building Kinda similar aircraft and YOU are saying they do Everything 100% different than Boeing!!Everything In other Words They never “sneaked a Peek at Ole Bills test Paper”

Then there is a job for you in Zeros Cabinet and I say Bunk.

[jpsb]

"And not that long ago we were all laughing at Airbus."

Not me, I repeatedly said, "I'll breath easier when the 787 flies".

This is very very bad news for Boeing and the 787, very good news for Airbus and the A350. I now expect a lot of air carries to cancel 787 orders. This does not help Boeing get the AF tanker orders either. How's all that out sourcing of design and production on the 787 working out for ya Boeing?

[2CAVTrooper]

Still can’t provide one shred of PROOF to back up your claims can you?

Show me where Boeing holds the patents on FBW systems, assembly techniques, tooling, machinery, and everything else you claim that Airbus “stole” from Boeing.

[Cheetahcat]

Where did I say “stole” Zippy you did Just they were doing it first and much better.

[Cheetahcat]

I have a problem the examples you gave me let's see got pulled from the seabed off Italy and the one I gave you set aviation standards the 707..without Pitot tube problems BTW way back them.

[2CAVTrooper]

"new kids on the block using technology lifted from the real guys. 36 posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:34:26 PM by Cheetahcat" You saying "lifted from the real guys IMPLIES that the technology was stolen. So show me the patents that Boeing holds for the technology that you claim was "lifted" (stolen) by Airbus.

[2CAVTrooper]

The only problem you have is the inability to back up your claims.

Put up of shut up junior.

[Cheetahcat]

“new kids on the block using technology lifted from the real guys. 36 posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:34:26 PM by Cheetahcat” You saying “lifted from the real guys IMPLIES that the technology was stolen. So show me the patents that Boeing holds for the technology that you claim was “lifted” (stolen) by Airbus.”

There you go Ace you said the “S” Word not me LOL

[Cheetahcat]

“The only problem you have is the inability to back up your claims.

Put up of shut up junior.”

Ok Lightweight how did AirRust come upon this?

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/12/exclusive-airbus-dreamliner-do.html

[2CAVTrooper]

YOU IMPLIED IT