Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Sotomayor reasserts 2nd Amendment does not apply to the states
Fox News Channel | 7/14/09

Posted on 07/14/2009 7:06:47 AM PDT by pabianice

Mentioned "hunting" and "target practice" as legitimate uses for a gun, as long as the state decides you can have one. Not one word on self-defense.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; bitter; lping; secondamendment; shallnotbeinfringed; sotomayor
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 321-323 next last
To: NoObamaFightForConservatives
That is an instant classic, and should be introduced into and repeated in every conversation that contends the Right is racist, while the Dems are all Goody-Two-Shoes and Little Lord Fauntleroys.

CA....

161 posted on 07/14/2009 9:51:57 AM PDT by Chances Are (Whew! It seems I've at last found that silly grin!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
That phrase, taken in isolation, misleads as to how the Presser Court viewed the RKBA.

Not in the slightest.

It is undoubtedly true that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force or reserve militia of the United States as well as of the states, and, in view of this prerogative of the general government, as well as of its general powers, the states cannot, even laying the [second amendment] out of view, prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms ...

Why did you stop?

It is undoubtedly true that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force or reserve militia of the United States as well as of the states, and, in view of this prerogative of the general government, as well as of its general powers, the states cannot, even laying the constitutional provision in question out of view, prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms so as to deprive the United States of their rightful resource for maintaining the public security, and disable the people from performing their duty to the general government.
That would be a violation of the right of Congress to "provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions..."

Article 1, Section 8. Not the 2nd Amendment.

162 posted on 07/14/2009 9:52:32 AM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: Mojave
I wouldn't throw the BS label around too quickly.

A 2nd A case on the question of incorporation simply hasn't reached the high court yet. But that doesn't mean the doctrine doesn't apply. It just hasn't been officially declared.

Given the way the incorporation doctrine has been applied, the 2nd must be incorporated by any honest judge. Whether we've got 5 honest judges on the USSC, time will tell. Since they decided Heller correctly (mostly), I think they'll do the just and right thing.

And perhaps old law would be the best in a perfect strict-constructionist world, but that hasn't been the case in this area of law since Mapp v. Ohio.

163 posted on 07/14/2009 9:53:45 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies]

To: TheDailyChange

...cause she doesn’t wasnt fair and just rulings. She wants more power for browns and the govt. She wants a Hispanocracy.


164 posted on 07/14/2009 9:54:13 AM PDT by PghBaldy (http://www.blackfive.net/main/2009/06/president-obama-visits-wounded-troops.html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
A 2nd A case on the question of incorporation simply hasn't reached the high court yet.

Cruikshank and Presser were BOTH subsequent to the enactment of the 14th Amendment.

Please don't invent your "facts."

165 posted on 07/14/2009 9:56:18 AM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies]

To: Shooter 2.5
"You might explain the process to the poster on #61."

I would simply ask him what his favorite gun rights organization is doing. If it's the GOA, I'm sure they are releasing statements and yelling and screaming at the top of their lungs, but in the end it does not influence anyone. That's the difference. The NRA has tremendous influence on capitol hill and in state houses around the country. Bottom line, they get things done. The GOA talks about getting things done and then pats themselves on the back for talking a good game.
166 posted on 07/14/2009 9:56:21 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies]

To: umgud
In his own mind, maybe.

The more I listen to him talk without the intervention of speechwriters and teleprompters, the more I am convinced that he couldn't litigate his way out of a paper bag.

He would be chewed up and spit out by a newly-minted ADA fresh out of law school and holding her first case file. He simply hasn't got what it takes.

167 posted on 07/14/2009 9:57:22 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: CPT Clay
"76 million gun owners, on Bastille Day no less. What a warm feeling."

Should a guilletine be considered an arm per 2nd Amendment? Is it legal to own one. We might be needing it soon.... : )
168 posted on 07/14/2009 10:01:39 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother

agreed


169 posted on 07/14/2009 10:02:20 AM PDT by umgud (Look to gov't to solve your everday problems and they'll control your everday life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: Mojave
Me: That phrase [The second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed, but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by congress], taken in isolation, misleads as to how the Presser Court viewed the RKBA.
-- Not in the slightest. --

I disagree vigorously as to the "misleading" effect that phrase has, in isolation. Most people conflate "2nd amendment" with "RKBA," so when SCOTUS says "2nd amendment only binds the feds," the conclusion reached by many (and EXPRESSLY reached by Circuit Courts) is that states may infringe the RKBA.

But when one "reads on" within the Presser case, one finds that the Presser Court did not green light infringement of the RKBA by states.

Isolating the "2nd amendment only binds the feds" phrase is the device that is used to reach the incorrect legal conclusion that states may infringe the RKBA, until the feds "incorporate" the 2nd. That's a gross misread of the Presser opinion.

I'm incredulous that you do not find such an application of the Presser precedent to be misleading in the slightest.

-- Article 1, Section 8. Not the 2nd Amendment. --

RKBA is what I said, not 2nd amendment; and not depending on 2nd amendment.

170 posted on 07/14/2009 10:03:38 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
So she supports Presser and Cruikshank, some of the worst cases in the history of SCOTUS.

I thought the Slaughterhouse line of cases is supposed to be dead. It is, except when it comes to firearms. There, Presser and Cruikshank still survive to this day, despite the original intent of the 14th Amendment to apply the Bill of Rights to the states.

Presser sucks. Sotomayor sucks for supporting that precident.

171 posted on 07/14/2009 10:05:17 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (We do what we have to do.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pabianice
Does this apply to the states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

Or this: "No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation"

Or this: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"

Or this: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people"

172 posted on 07/14/2009 10:05:42 AM PDT by sanchmo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
"My point of view is that the RKBA has vitality in all states, regardless of incorporation, and regardless of even the presence of the 2nd amendment."

I agree totally with what you say. However I don't think that argument is going to carry water in 21st century America. We need to get a case for the 2A to fall under incorporation so that what we both believe will in fact be codified.

Personally, I go a little farther than what you are saying. I believe that the founders intent was laid out in what Tench Coxe said. That the citizen should be able to own every terrible weapon of the soldier. That means to me that we should be allowed to own all the weapons that a foot soldier possesses to include fully auto rifles. And not the B.S. way we do today where we have to jump through hoops and pay money out the wazoo to get one.
173 posted on 07/14/2009 10:05:45 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: Mojave
No, I'm not inventing facts. The break point is not the ratification of the 14th. As I noted in a previous post, Mapp v. Ohio was iirc one of the earliest cases if not the earliest to apply the incorporation doctrine -- to the 4th amendment. The incorporation doctrine didn't spring up all at once, it has developed over time.

But it's here now, and it's law in just about every aspect of the BOR. The 3rd has not come up (quartering of soldiers) and the 7th trial by jury hasn't been addressed because every state provides for trial by jury.

But most states have their own guarantee of the right to bear arms, and of course it's 'endowed by the Creator' anyhow. Getting it incorporated will save trouble, however.

174 posted on 07/14/2009 10:05:53 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: Old Teufel Hunden
-- I'm surprised, there are three original states with no provision out of the six that don't contain provisions for the right to keep and bear arms. --

That's because the RKBA was taken as a given. You don't see any right to build a house in the Constitution, do you? Same sort of issue.

175 posted on 07/14/2009 10:06:27 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
Most people conflate "2nd amendment" with "RKBA,"

It's only misleading to encourage them to continue in that error. The right to keep and bear arms did not originate with the 2nd Amendment and is not dependent on it for its existence.

176 posted on 07/14/2009 10:06:37 AM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: RockyMtnMan

So fear of something else, which we don’t see, don’t know, and haven’t got, is the rule for acceptance of what is bad, evil, and non principled, which we do see, do know, and have got before us!!!?
“The only thing to fear is fear itself”, as someone once put it.


177 posted on 07/14/2009 10:08:52 AM PDT by whywhine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
The incorporation doctrine didn't spring up all at once, it has developed over time.

The debasement of the Constitution and destruction of original intent by judicial legislation has indeed been progressive. So what?

the 7th trial by jury hasn't been addressed because every state provides for trial by jury.

The states are all over the place regarding which offenses merit jury trials and which don't. Please stop inventing your "facts."

178 posted on 07/14/2009 10:11:58 AM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: Darren McCarty
-- So she supports Presser and Cruikshank, some of the worst cases in the history of SCOTUS. --

Cruikshank and Presser aren't anti-RKBA. They have been deliberately misconstrued by federal courts, in a completely successful effort at rewriting precedent.

SCOTUS helped rewrite Miller too, by stating that Miller was convicted, and that SCOTUS conclusively decided that the 2nd amendment does not cover short-barrel shotguns. Utterly FALSE.

179 posted on 07/14/2009 10:13:04 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: Shooter 2.5

An it’s Tommy this and Tommy that and ‘chuck’im out, the brute’. But it’s Saviour of ‘is country when the guns begin to shoot.


180 posted on 07/14/2009 10:13:52 AM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 321-323 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson