Posted on 07/09/2009 8:37:07 AM PDT by NYer
Here are two threads for them to also read!
A Capitalist or Anti-Capitalist Encyclical? [Caritas in Veritate]
What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Subsidiarity, [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
I’m surprised that you have not read the entire document and would come out with statesments taken out of context. Have you read the entire document? It’s linked in several of the links above.
It's not in Breaking News anymore...
The Pope is trying to imitate Jesus not imitate an economist. If you consider Jesus a socialist, then the Pope is a socialist.
So, you would have a problem with a political authority that was universally recognized? Isn’t that a good thing?
Ping!
See #2. I was just responding to NYer.
I don’t really feel the need to make a distinction on the matter of OOG or a OOR. I do not see God bringing a OOG or OOR into existence on this earth prior to it being purged at the end of the thousand years.
From you pseudonym, I take it you believe in Jesus returning and setting up an Earthly kingdom. That’s probably why we differ in our assessments.
No offense intended.
I will admit to being qutie apprehensive about the idea of any OOG or OOR set up on this earth, as if it were part of God’s grand design, prior to the Second Coming and Jesus taking the Righteous away with Him for a period of time.
If something like this were to take place, as if God were The One directing it, I believe it would be fertile ground for some of the worst abuses to be perpetrated on humanity in all of history.
If I read you accurately, you probably don’t reverence the New Testament. That may be why we disagree here.
Again, no offense intended.
If I’m misreading you, I apologize. I was merely trying to comment on what your beliefs might be as a Jewish person. Please correct me if I’m off base. I would appreciate it.
Thanks. I’m glad to see this rebuttal of sorts.
Not much could be worse for this old world, than for an organization like the U.N. to be granted more power.
We need for it to be disbanded, immediately.
I will find you the quote.
He has, himself, said that his political thinking is closest to Europe’s “democratic” socialists. His economic euphemisms reflect that fact.
Just like the federal system of the United States was supposed to work: Matters local to a jurisdiction are adjudicated in that jurisdiction, and matters crossing jurisdictions are adjudicated by an interjusridictional body whose only mandate if for such interjusridictional disputes.
The Catholic Pope could end any confusion by not speaking and writing in euphemisms and call a spade a spade - plain speaking. He hasn’t and he won’t.
AND HE KNOWS he makes allies with Marxists because he refuses to speak plainly, and they love him for appearing to give moral authority to their view, and with that THEIR view gains, politically, they gain political majorities and those majorities don’t give two bits about the Catholic Church’s teachings on life, family and sexuality.
It is a game Catholic intellectuals, like Benedict, have been playing in Europe for decades, and losing the flock with.
So how could this new world authority come to an economic judgment (your country must tax more or less than it does) and enforce it from “within our country,” then?
If people read enough of the encyclicals starting with Pope Leo XIII on the abuse of human freedom that has been leading up to this point ,they would understand this encyclical is more a warning to the human centered globalization that was predicted and already here due to man’s immorality to obey God.
We should be looking at this encyclical as a final warning from God given to the Church for mankind to end materialism,greed,abortion etc.. and to be willing to sacrifice for others through charity and for the love of fellow man who suffers poverty ,hopelessness etc..
In other words...It’s late in the Game folks!
I wish everyone would read the following encyclicals first before making quick off the cuff uneducated loony conspiracy comments that plays into the devil’s hands
QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON SOCIALISM
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_28121878_quod-apostolici-muneris_en.html
Excerpts...We speak of that sect of men who, under various and almost barbarous names, are called socialists, communists, or nihilists, and who, spread over all the world, and bound together by the closest ties in a wicked confederacy, no longer seek the shelter of secret meetings, but, openly and boldly marching forth in the light of day, strive to bring to a head what they have long been planning - the overthrow of all civil society whatsoever.
Surely these are they who, as the sacred Scriptures testify, “Defile the flesh, despise dominion and blaspheme majesty.”(2) They leave nothing untouched or whole which by both human and divine laws has been wisely decreed for the health and beauty of life. They refuse obedience to the higher powers, to whom, according to the admonition of the Apostle, every soul ought to be subject, and who derive the right of governing from God; and they proclaim the absolute equality of all men in rights and duties. They debase the natural union of man and woman, which is held sacred even among barbarous peoples; and its bond, by which the family is chiefly held together, they weaken, or even deliver up to lust. Lured, in fine, by the greed of present goods, which is “the root of all evils, which some coveting have erred from the faith,”(3) they assail the right of property sanctioned by natural law; and by a scheme of horrible wickedness, while they seem desirous of caring for the needs and satisfying the desires of all men, they strive to seize and hold in common whatever has been acquired either by title of lawful inheritance, or by labor of brain and hands, or by thrift in one’s mode of life. These are the startling theories they utter in their meetings, set forth in their pamphlets, and scatter abroad in a cloud of journals and tracts. Wherefore, the revered majesty and power of kings has won such fierce hatred from their seditious people that disloyal traitors, impatient of all restraint, have more than once within a short period raised their arms in impious attempt against the lives of their own sovereigns.
LIBERTAS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE NATURE OF
HUMAN LIBERTY
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_20061888_libertas_en.html
Excerpts...13. Moreover, the highest duty is to respect authority, and obediently to submit to just law; and by this the members of a community are effectually protected from the wrong-doing of evil men. Lawful power is from God, “and whosoever resisteth authority resisteth the ordinance of God’ ;(6) wherefore, obedience is greatly ennobled when subjected to an authority which is the most just and supreme of all. But where the power to command is wanting, or where a law is enacted contrary to reason, or to the eternal law, or to some ordinance of God, obedience is unlawful, lest, while obeying man, we become disobedient to God. Thus, an effectual barrier being opposed to tyranny, the authority in the State will not have all its own way, but the interests and rights of all will be safeguarded - the rights of individuals, of domestic society, and of all the members of the commonwealth; all being free to live according to law and right reason; and in this, as We have shown, true liberty really consists.
14. If when men discuss the question of liberty they were careful to grasp its true and legitimate meaning, such as reason and reasoning have just explained, they would never venture to affix such a calumny on the Church as to assert that she is the foe of individual and public liberty. But many there are who follow in the footsteps of Lucifer, and adopt as their own his rebellious cry, “I will not serve”; and consequently substitute for true liberty what is sheer and most foolish license. Such, for instance, are the men belonging to that widely spread and powerful organization, who, usurping the name of liberty, style themselves liberals.
DIVINI REDEMPTORIS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI
ON ATHEISTIC COMMUNISM
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19031937_divini-redemptoris_en.html
Excerpt...If we would explain the blind acceptance of Communism by so many thousands of workmen, we must remember that the way had been already prepared for it by the religious and moral destitution in which wage-earners had been left by liberal economics. Even on Sundays and holy days, labor-shifts were given no time to attend to their essential religious duties. No one thought of building churches within convenient distance of factories, nor of facilitating the work of the priest. On the contrary, laicism was actively and persistently promoted, with the result that we are now reaping the fruits of the errors so often denounced by Our Predecessors and by Ourselves. It can surprise no one that the Communistic fallacy should be spreading in a world already to a large extent de-Christianized.
17. There is another explanation for the rapid diffusion of the Communistic ideas now seeping into every nation, great and small, advanced and backward, so that no corner of the earth is free from them. This explanation is to be found in a propaganda so truly diabolical that the world has perhaps never witnessed its like before. It is directed from one common center. It is shrewdly adapted to the varying conditions of diverse peoples. It has at its disposal great financial resources, gigantic organizations, international congresses, and countless trained workers. It makes use of pamphlets and reviews, of cinema, theater and radio, of schools and even universities. Little by little it penetrates into all classes of the people and even reaches the better-minded groups of the community, with the result that few are aware of the poison which increasingly pervades their minds and hearts.
OK I believe you.
Excellent post! I need to read those encyclicals. I hope you don’t mind if I copy and post it to the general audience thread.
This is good news if the Pope is indeed clarifying any support for a one world economic czar.
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