Did Obama Order George Tiller's Murder? (Article about FreeRepublic Alert)

Bliefnet ^ | June 1, 2009 | Steven Waldman

[Zakeet]

I'm wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments. One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet's boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists.

But it's worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic, a conservative community, to gauge the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives.

First, quite a few people are saying that murder is wrong, no matter how evil the victim was.

SnakeDoc:
Thou Shalt Not Murder. Both the shooter and the victim will be judged.

Patriot preacher:
Pro-lifers should condemn this as antithetical to their philosophy and beliefs. Hopefully, the perpetrator will be apprehended and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I will shed no tears that Teller is gone -- but MURDER is MURDER.

Then a large group is making a more practical argument that this was bad because it will backfire. In fact, a startling large number believe Tiller was murdered by Obama or pro-choice allies in order to justify a crackdown on guns or civil liberties:

upchuck:
This serial-killer piece of excrement will be held up by every abortionist and every lover of abortionists as the reason why the Secret Service needs to be assigned to guard every abortionist,every abortion mill and every lover of abortions in this country.

gridlock:
Obama is going to take advantage of this murder to sieze even more control over our society. I would not even put it past them to commit this murder themselves, as an excuse to sieze power. Reichstag Fire, and all that...

jazminerose:
Will form the rationalization for really stomping on pro life groups. Was it one of BO's storm troopers who pulled the trigger?

Then there's a large number of people who flat-out applaud the killing. I'm going to print a lot of them because it's really unfair to pluck a few extreme quotes off any websites message boards. What's amazing is the sheer volulme of people thinking this way:

imahawk:
One less nazi as far as I am concerned.

Turret Gunner A20:
Hope the guy gets away....Do you think that it would have been murder to assignate Hitler? And don't say that the question has no relevance -- this crud was a leading the killer-of-innocents criminal thugs that has already killed throughout the world far more innocents that Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined. His killer did a great service when noone else would do it.

calico_thompson:
Well, at least the perp didn't rip his arms and legs off and then suck his brains out.

Gaffer:
No doubt this 'man' is responsible for thousands, maybe tens-of-thousands of needless and wanton deaths. If you think his 'passing' is a bad thing in the cause of speaking out and ending the practice of abortion, I don't know what to tell you. I can only say that I shall not mourn his demise, nor shall I judge others.

TheDuke:
But, wasn't this just another late term abortion(?)

Slump Tester:
It's too bad the suspect didn't poke a roto rooter through his skull and then suck him into a vacuum cleaner instead of just shooting the bastard.

SampleMan:
Whether he will be judged as a murderer by God may be an open question, and none of us know the answer. In 1942 Reinhard Heydrich was killed in Prague in cold blood. Czech commandos committed what was by the law of the land murder. They were from a country that had surrendered and they were not in uniform. They did this because he was orchestrating the destruction of the Czech people. Did they kill a tyrant or commit murder or both? There is also the case of course of John Brown and slavery. Yes we must obey our laws, until we can no longer live with the result of not obeying them.

babygene:
killing to prevent a serial killer from claiming his next victim probably doesn't fit into the category of murder...

Cheetahcat:
Nothing to see here just his last abortion this one many trimesters Post Birth.

Ahithophel:
He will till no more in the bloody garden of evisceration.

UnwashedPeasant:
What kind of "church" was this? The Wright kind?

steve86:
I guess the allies should not have killed a single Nazi soldier in WWII?

eccentric:
It is not murder to kill someone to save someone else's life.

353FMG:
The shooter had to kill in order to save the lives of numerous future children. If the shooter is considered a murderer, then so are our brave soldiers. They (the soldiers) have to kill in order to save our lives from the constant threat of terrorism.

mrsmel:
It's too bad, when murderers on the left who really did target innocent people are rewarded and lauded. This man Tiller was responsible for the horrific deaths of thousands of innocent babies, and we are supposed to be shame-faced that someone stopped him in his tracks from jabbing scissors into yet another babies' head and sucking their life out.

and from another thread:

Canedawg:
i wouldnt feel too badly if some of the communists in our govt met a similar fate. That doesnt mean i am about to go around killing anyone, but if someone else does the deed, i wont be crying over the tainted blood of treasonous actors and infanticiders.

Glenn:
How about rejoicing for all the children this "Doctor" will not murder now?

Flintlock:
I tried to get upset about this.
I failed.
My bad, I guess.

stockpirate:
God BLESS the man that killed Tiller.
It is time the left started to feel the wrath of conservatives.
There is a time for peace and a time for war.
Jesus said I came not to bring peace but a sword. Those who beat their swords into plows will plow for those who do not.
A people unwilling to use extreme violence to preserve their liberty deserve the tyrants that rule them. The two phrases are written over the doors of the Justice Department in DC, "Repression breeds violence" and "Where justice ends, tyranny begins"
Certainly the unborn are suffering under the boot of tyranny and are being repressed by the ungodly.
Rightous men have an obligation to change the wanton murder of the unborn.
A nation that allows the murder of the unborn deserves God's harsh judgement.

and this thread:

Lexington Green:
What goes around...

newfreep:
Whatever "church" Tiller attends must be worshipping satan.

IDRATHERNOT:
Tiller Shot & Killed? Thousands of unborn children claim self defense.

wardaddy:
he reaped what he's sowed same as anyone so evil

Sloth:
*shrug* Genocide has consequences.

The Sons of Liberty:
Shooting was too good for him. Too bad his body wasn't torn to pieces like his victims.
May he burn in hell for eternity.

wardaddy:
This guy wa a monster period.
Did you cry when Dahmer got killed in the joint?
Would you worry about Manson?
nothing personal but ya'll are soft as butter.
I make no apologies whatsoever, folks here will be ill prepared for where we're headed.

whatisthetruth:
I'm only surprised this didn't happen sooner, couldn't have happened to a better man, IMO.

P-Marlowe:
If you TRULY believe that Abortion is murder, then you cannot condemn anyone who would do anything to stop this mass murderer from continuing in his crimes. This is where the rubber meets the road. If you call abortion murder, then this was justifiable homicide. If abortion is not murder, then Tiller was the victim of a heinous crime and his killer should be condemned.

mjp:
Sometimes retaliatory force is necessary to stop initiation of force by those who are violating natural rights. Preservation of life and natural rights of the innocent is a natural duty that God requires.

tips up:
If the killer just put scissors into his skull, it would be considered a late term abortion (60+ years late) and he would be a hero of the left, rather than a domestic terrorist.

gscc:
I suppose if Hitler had been assassinated there would have been many "good" Germans who would have looked at the assassin as a "crazy". Let's face it - this country has lost it's soul. We live in a post-Judeo-Christian nation and it will only go down hill from here. There will certainly be many "good" Americans that lament the passing of this evil man. With a federal government, press and apostate "church" firmly entrenched in liberal secular theology we are witnessing the end of the founder's America.

MichiganConservative:
It's abortion in the 272nd tri-mester (ROTFLMAO)
Post-extraction lead-induced termination.

[Gene Eric]

>> Not only is it legal to kill the fetus, people glorify and profit from the process of killing it - it is celebrated as a gift by some.

Not only is it legal to kill the fetus, people glorify and profit from the process of killing the fetus - abortion is celebrated as a gift by some.

[Minn]

You suggested censorship, censor yourself, tough guy.

Banning idiots that drag the enterprise down from a privately held forum wouldn't be censorship. It would be fumigation. Sometimes it's better to let fools have their say, so they can start using big words like "fascist" (which they obviously don't understand at all), provide entertainment, and discredit themselves. The problem is, in this case, they (you) discredit anybody that cares about the sanctity of life. They (you) become a tool of the left. Why are you wasting your time here "tough guy". Don't you have an abortionist to shoot?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Marlowe, you wrote...

Those of you lurkers and posters who claim that ABORTION IS MURDER, but think you are not in some way culpable in the death of Tiller, are you just uttering IDLE WORDS

And that is an absurd statement. I have my own sins to worry about, but being "culpable in the death of Tiller" sure as hell is not one of them.

As usual you read me wrong.

"As usual?" I'm trying my best.

[Gene Eric]

By the way, congratulations on your new grandson!

[Alamo-Girl]

Such Christians must be spiritually blind. Or so it seems to me. For they hold Tiller's and Roeder's acts as "morally equivalent." It seems their "judgment" is by some one-size-fits-all doctrine that doesn't strike me as particularly biblical.

Indeed.

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ, and thank you for your encouragements!

[P-Marlowe]

I have my own sins to worry about, but being "culpable in the death of Tiller" sure as hell is not one of them.

Who said it was a "sin"?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Congratulations, grandpa!

"He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight." -- Psalms 72:14

[cybervyk]

Whatever, a$$hole, I’m not going anywhere.
Also, I’m not going to bother to read anything you write to me. Get me, I’m gonna censor your a$$.

[P-Marlowe]

I don’t know how many times I can say it. I’m against abortion. I hate it and think its disgusting.

I'm against smoking. I hate it and think it's disgusting.

I think killing this doctor is as equally disgusting and wrong

Do you think smoking is equally as disgusting?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I think we miss a larger principle when we focus on the abortion-murder question that the pro-abortionists want us to rather than the "violence begetting violence" principle; the cause and effect rules that God has built into the system.

Yep. We've seen this scenario too many times not to believe we're being played once again.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Are you and I, as you wrote, "in some way culpable in the death of Tiller?"

Please stick to the precise question. You and I, "culpable in the death of Tiller?"

[Gene Eric]

>> Yep. We’ve seen this scenario too many times not to believe we’re being played once again.

Many attribute the Pro-Life movement as nothing more than an extension of right-wing, Christian ideology and thereby dismiss the Life cause as trivial dogma. Such blighted perceptions obscure the simpler reality of the unborn child’s existence and vulnerability.

There’s a fundamental problem in the discourse concerning abortion - primarily, it’s God’s problem, which for many translates to no problem at all. I don’t believe it’s God’s problem. It’s a problem for humanity, and the grotesque assault on fellow human newbies needs illumination in the secular setting.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

I've been meditating on your line of reasoning. My understanding is that to whatever extent people have been claiming that abortion is "murder" that those same people are complicit in causing Roeder to murder Tiller to prevent more murders, i.e. "justifiable homicide."

Personally, I do not believe the end justifies the means. And yet I do recall the story of a man on a hunting trip, stopping along the way, and using the scope on his rifle to check out the land, spotted a guy fixing to execute a trooper. What else could he do but murder the guy? I cannot fathom any jury finding such a man guilty of first degree murder - or any prosecutor foolish enough to seek such a finding.

As for me, I know I have called abortion killing though I don't remember whether I've used the word "murder." But the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" interprets to "don't willfully murder an innocent person."

But murder under God's Law is not necessarily the same as murder under the laws and language of men.

In the case at hand, the courts, media and pro-abortion side are careful to call the unborn child, even a viable child, a fetus - and the killing, a medical procedure to terminate a pregnancy. But dehumanizing the unborn does not make it so, nor does using a substitute phrase making killing any less than what it is.

And if the courts tomorrow decide that anyone over the age of 80 is no longer a human but a "useless eater" that does not make it truth. Likewise if the courts decide that putting a "useless eater" down is not murder but culling, that does not make it truth.

Personally, I do not feel like I am complicit in Roeder's actions by accurately describing what abortion "is" under God's Law - I am merely speaking truth. If anything, I am the scope on the rifle.

There is no blood on my hands.

[NoGrayZone]

"Please try to be a little more judicious about posting pictures like that. You're preaching to the choir here."

There are MANY people who lurk at FR. Yes, he may be "preaching to the choir here" but there are many who "come here" that need to be preached to.

[NoGrayZone]

"Real progress?"

"There have been no late term abortions in Kansas since 5/31/09."

Excellent response!

[HarleyD]

Dr. E-But I still would not call for any individual to murder even a murderer. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Amen!

xzin-I couldn't even fake being sorry that Tiller is dead.

Amen!

All men, Christian or not, do evil things simply because God removes His hand of grace from them leaving them to follow their own devices. Our nature is evil and left to ourselves we will produce evil fruit. If anything, Tiller and Roeder serves to show to what level we can sink if it were not for God's substaining hand.

1Pe 4:15 Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome meddler;

[NoGrayZone]

“The Luthern church is pretty liberal”

Which is exactly why I left. I am now “homeless”. I understand that some sects are now allowing gay “pastors”.

[blue-duncan]

There is a principle of Divine reciprocity.

Matt. 7:2, For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Ps. 109:6, Set thou a wicked man over him:

Prov. 14:32, The wicked is driven away in his wickedness:

We do not think it unusual when in the drug culture or the prison culture, each culture’s form of justice is meted out mercilessly. Why then is this no different in the culture of death?

[NoGrayZone]

"after all, they were using America's most notorious abortionist as an usher."

Matthew 7:15-16..... "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?"

[stockpirate]

I stand by my comments posted in the article and of those like minded freepreers.