(U.S. Supreme Court) Justices to decide if vets can be honored with cross

Washington Times ^ | Monday, May 25, 2009 | Washington Times

[Iam1ru1-2]

Some see it as the universal symbol of sacrifice in World War I, others see it as the undisputed sign of Christianity, but it will be up to the Supreme Court to make a final determination as to whether a 7-foot cross remains standing in a California desert to memorialize war veterans.

The cross was first erected in 1934 in what is now the federally protected Mojave Desert Preserve by a group of veterans whose doctors advised them that the desert heat would help them recover from shell shock.

Veterans today say this war memorial and others like it across the country that use religious symbols are under attack by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). *

"They are not the enemy; they are just dead wrong," says Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW).

But the civil liberties group says the cross is offensive to Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim and other non-Christian veterans.

[Mariner]

Well, I'm a member of the VFW and I question government funds for a religious symbol too.

Now, if the VFW and the Legion want to take a separate collection...optional line item in the dues along with fund raisers...to put up any type of monument or symbol the contributors wish, I'm OK with that.

But taxpayer money at a Veteran's Memorial should be spent areligiously.

[bigheadfred]

HORSE SHIT..

BUMP!

[cork]

keep your powder dry, we gonna need it. I ditto the HORSE SHIT

[EDINVA]

The post to which you are replying went on to say:

“If they want to erect a Star of David that would not be offensive since Christianity’s base is based on the Jewish Scriptures. But no other religion’s symbols.”

The crafters of the Declaration of Independence were well versed in the Old Testament.

[Carry_Okie]

The post to which you are replying went on to say:

It was still an inaccurate statement betraying near total ignorance of the Jewish contribution to the political philosophy of limited government, which he presumed to be Christian in origin. So, I told him where to find the original, history's only designed-anarchy. G_d was to be King.

The crafters of the Declaration of Independence were well versed in the Old Testament.

There was only one "crafter" of the DoI: Jefferson, whose private religiosity is still a matter of debate. Nor does that document have diddly to do with the structure of our government. It addresses the source of unalienable right and the primacy of the people, but not much more.

[prairiebreeze]

Note to the Justices:

God is watching.....

[OldNavyVet]

“Given time they will want to remove all the crosses at Arlington Cemetery “

Most gravestones at Arlington have small religious symbols inscribed therein — along with name, dates and miltary rank.

[skr]

Is it a huge stretch for those of non-Christian faiths or of no faith at all to see the cross as symbolic of sacrifice for others, based on what anyone can read about the crucifixion of Jesus?

[cva66snipe]

Given time they will want to remove all the crosses at Arlington Cemetery because it is public government property and Christian symbols are not acceptable because they might offend the Jihad terrorists.

There's quite a few Star of David there also. The VA will place either a cross or Star of David on the vets marker at the families request. The NRP's or no religious preference will not have an emblem showing a personal religious preference. Problem has been solved for a long time.

[markomalley]

Going forward, allow for memorials that celebrate the remembered in some other way than their religious beliefs.

So when do you think that the ACLU will go after headstones (paid for with US tax dollars, unlike the vast majority of war memorials)?

Please see:

EMBLEM
01	CHRISTIAN CROSS
02	BUDDHIST (Wheel of Righteousness)
03	JUDAISM (Star of David)
04	PRESBYTERIAN CROSS
05	RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CROSS
06	LUTHERAN CROSS
07	EPISCOPAL CROSS
08	UNITARIAN CHURCH/UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST ASSOCIATION
09	UNITED METHODIST CHURCH
10	AARONIC ORDER CHURCH
11	MORMON (Angel Moroni)
12	NATIVE AMERICAN CHURCH OF NORTH AMERICA
13	SERBIAN ORTHODOX
14	GREEK CROSS
15	BAHAI (9 Pointed Star)
16	ATHEIST
17	MUSLIM (Crescent and Star)
18	HINDU
19	KONKO-KYO FAITH
20	COMMUNITY OF CHRIST
21	SUFISM REORIENTED
22	TENRIKYO CHURCH
23	SEICHO-NO-IE
24	CHURCH OF WORLD MESSIANITY (Izunome)
25	UNITED CHURCH OF RELIGIOUS SCIENCE
26	CHRISTIAN REFORMED CHURCH
27	UNITED MORAVIAN CHURCH
28	ECKANKAR
29	CHRISTIAN CHURCH
30	CHRISTIAN & MISSIONARY ALLIANCE
31	UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST
32	HUMANIST EMBLEM OF SPIRIT
33	PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH (USA)
34	IZUMO TAISHAKYO MISSION OF HAWAII
35	SOKA GAKKAI INTERNATIONAL - USA
36	SIKH (KHANDA)
37	WICCA (Pentacle)
97	CHRISTIAN SCIENTIST (Cross & Crown)	Not shown because of copyrights.
98	MUSLIM (Islamic 5 Pointed Star)	Not shown because of copyrights.

But back to memorials, do you realize that almost all of the war memorials have been erected using private funding?

For example, the WWI Memorial. "Erected in 1931, it was paid for by private funds raised through a campaign led by Frank B. Noyes, president of the Associated Press and the Washington Evening Star."

Or you have the WWII Memorial. It was funded primarily by private contributions: $197M out of $213M.

Or you have the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. It was funded primarily by vets and entirely by private funds.

Now what makes the difference?

Peoples' money is what makes these memorials happen. Not government money. The majority of what government does is provide the land upon which the memorial stands. Since it is peoples' money and not government money, as long as it does not denigrate somebody else's religion, the fact that an almighty is acknowledged shouldn't be offensive. (If government money is used, then I can agree that the memorial shouldn't get into the business of religion one way or the other...as long as, in leaving the subject alone, they don't have to alter history. For example, if there was a memorial to the military chaplains who sacrificed their lives, and such a memorial was funded with government funds, it would be insane not to have the symbols of the religions represented by those chaplains displayed prominently on such a memorial)

You know, I wonder when the ACLU is going to sue the CIA and demand that they remove the Scriptural quote on the wall of the OHB lobby.

[Gondring]

Given time they will want to remove all the crosses at Arlington Cemetery because it is public government property and Christian symbols are not acceptable because they might offend the Jihad terrorists.

What about Captain Khan, who lies in Arlington? (He lured a suicide bomber away from his command, giving his own life for theirs.)

Copyright © 2007 A. Gondring. All rights reserved and all that junk.
Only adjustment was cropping, rotation, and lightening the brightness
to bring out the writing in the face of the sun glare

Or what about Army Specialists Rasheed Sahib and Omead Razani, who also died in Iraq?

Or Marine Staff Sergeant Kendall Damon Waters-Bey?

There are more than crosses in our National Military Cemeteries...and the crescents of the above are among the recent additions.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

This crap has got to be stopped.

[Gay State Conservative]

Vets can be honored by Crosses...Stars of David....hell,even moslem symbols.....

[Dilbert San Diego]

I have never heard Jewish, Buddhist, etc. people say that they are offended by Christian religious symbols or the Christian religion. I have frequently heard liberals and ACLU types tell us that others are offended by Christianity. But the people allegedly offended are not the ones claiming offense.

[Gay State Conservative]

Note to the Justices: God is watching.....

Could it be more obvious that at least four of them couldn't care less?

[EDINVA]

“There was only one “crafter” of the DoI: Jefferson,”

Au contraire. There actually was a committee that drafted the Declaration with Jefferson. Virtually every word and phrase was then debated and much editing was done by the entire delegation ... if you ever go to the National Archives, they have what Jefferson drafted and the final product.

Others, not present in Philadelphia, had some influence as well:

” That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent natural Rights… among which are the Enjoyment of Life and Liberty, with the Means of acquiring and possessing Property, and pursueing and obtaining Happiness and Safety.” — George Mason. Virginia Declaration of Rights, May, 1776.

Has a familiar ring, wouldn’t you say?

Why would the drafters/signers of the Declaration be formulating our system of government ... for all they knew when they took that courageous, unprecedented step, none of them would live to form a government, limited or otherwise. Breaking free from the monarchy was a first, tenuous step. As fate would have it, many of them did emerge from the Revolutionary War penniless, having lost their fortunes; several lost members of their families, but they kept intact their sacred honor.

The point remains that the educated class in the colonies in those days were steeped in both the Old and New Testaments. Whether they took it to heart, or lived exemplary Judeo-Christian lives is yet another question. Probably moreso than the Jews and Christians of today.

[MissouriConservative]

“Yeah, but if we put that cross in a 7 foot container of urine then the ACLU will want to protect it as free speech.”

How about we submerge some ACLU lawyers in that 7 foot container of urine? I’d pay to see that “art” work.

[c.nugget]

But the civil liberties group says the cross is offensive to Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim and other non-Christian veterans.

I'm a non-Christian veteran. As far as I'm concerned, the only offensive part is the ACLU trying to have a memorial to veterans taken down.

I do however have to disagree with the idea that only a cross or Jewish Star of David would be acceptable. I served with a few muslims, who all served honorably. If someone wanted to erect a memorial to their service that was a red crescent, that's fine by me. And if someone wants to erect a memorial for those of us who are atheist veterans, go right ahead.

[Carry_Okie]

Au contraire. There actually was a committee that drafted the Declaration with Jefferson.

Jefferson wrote the draft and was surprised at the degree to which it remained intact.

Has a familiar ring, wouldn’t you say?

Yes, John Locke.

Why would the drafters/signers of the Declaration be formulating our system of government ... for all they knew when they took that courageous, unprecedented step, none of them would live to form a government, limited or otherwise. Breaking free from the monarchy was a first, tenuous step. As fate would have it, many of them did emerge from the Revolutionary War penniless, having lost their fortunes; several lost members of their families, but they kept intact their sacred honor.

This has nothing whatever to do with the question of structure.

The point remains that the educated class in the colonies in those days were steeped in both the Old and New Testaments. Whether they took it to heart, or lived exemplary Judeo-Christian lives is yet another question. Probably moreso than the Jews and Christians of today.

Which has nothing whatever to do with what I originally posted. Nice try.

[Cheerio]

Why is it that the Obama birth certificate cases keep getting thrown out because of a lack of ‘standing’ and/or inability to show that the person bringing the suit has been ‘harmed’; yet, the ACLU can keep bringing these cases to court in which there is absolutely no proof that anyone is being harmed. Will it be necessary to march in the streets and scream ‘no justice no peace’ and wage all the civil unrest the left has in order to stop this onslaught of anti-Christian anti-American nonsense?

Why is it that SCOTUS decides to take a case like this, but has denied every single one of the BC cases? It is up to the SCOTUS which case they want to hear and which ones they deny - that is clearly their prerogative.

YES we are going to have to take to the streets - there is no other way to stop this train wreck. Most conservatives will do nothing, just like we have seen from the GOP in the last four years(or how ever many), hardly ever standing up for what is right, and shouting down the slanderers and liars and their DNC media.