Posted on 04/19/2009 9:14:22 AM PDT by UnalienablyRight
ABC's Sam Donaldson let a little of his inner-conspiracy theorist out this morning on This Week with George Stephanopoulos.
In a discussion of President Barack Obama's lessening the sanctions on Fidel Castro's Cuba, Donaldson began his analysis with one of a number a Kennedy-Truther notions that have been knocking around ever since President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963....
Another wild card in this crazy deck was Cuba's El Presidente, Castro. The theory being that Castro was upset with JFK's woefully planned and executed Bay of Pigs attempt at ending his nascent dictatorship, and therefore exacted his revenge by executing the 35th President.
Donaldson's buy-in for this house-of-cards game is apparently the Castro connection.
To wit:
(Excerpt) Read more at newsbusters.org ...
The rifle is fully capable of 3 shots in 8 seconds, the physics of the bullet trajectories are in one direction, and one direction only.
The physical positions of the two men align them perfectly for one shot, from less than 65 yards, to hit both.
The ammunition, Geneva Convention certified is more copper-nickel jacket than lead, made to penetrate.
There will always be ones who want to believe some mysterious, shadowy, hidden force that accomplished the biggest murder in history.
To do that, the conspriacy would depend on a number of people being silent.
You 'd have to have someone, plant the rifle on the 6th floor while the building is locked down, and is being searched by the police, and the employees accounted for
You have to have someone else plant Oswalds prints on the rifle, the window where the shots came from.
You'd have to not believe that the police acting on a tip in the murder of Officer JD Tippit had NO idea that the man they arrested in the Texas Theatre was the SAME man they were looking for listed as missing from the TSBD after the shooting.
Oswald acted alone. And HE is the story, not the government. Follow his path from birth to death and you have the reasons why he murdered Kennedy.
Character assassination is not a substitute for logic. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a liar or a nut is not an impressive way to win an argument. Posner makes some good points but he also others no proof to contradict eyewitness testimony, only a variation of the “nuts and sluts” defense. Weak, very weak.
I’m still not persuaded Oswald acted alone nor am I persuaded Oswald did not. All I can conclude, as I said with my first post, is that he was involved in the assassination (based on his behavior that morning) and if there was a conspiracy, no sane person would have made him a key player in it.
Yes, he was a loner and a loser who felt demeaned by his station in life. But to say he shot Kennedy to impress a woman is as much conjecture as any other theory.
You have ZERO evidence of that, FRiend. Only conjecture.
There is little doubt that Oswald killed Tippit. See “Case Closed” pages 273-280. excerpt:
Helen Markhan, standing on a street corner only half a block away, was on her way to catch a bus when she saw Oswald murder Tippit. After the shots, Oswald trotted back toward her and she began screaming. “When he saw me, he looked at me, stared at me” she recalled. “I put my hands over my face...” She was traumatized by the scene and had to be given smelling salts at the police station before she could enter the lineup room. There, she quickly selected Oswald.
paraphrasing here from p. 275
Also Virginia Davis and her sister-in-law Barbara Davis, were inside there home when they heard the shots. When they opened their door they saw Oswald cutting across their lawn, pulling and shaking the shells from his gun. Both women picked Oswald that night from the same police lineup.
William Scoggins, a Dallas taxi driver, was eating lunch in his cab half a block away. He looked up to see Tippit fall and then hid behind his cab. Oswald ran towards him but didn’t see him. “He looked back over his shoulder...as he went by...I could see his face, his features, everything plain, you see...I heard him mutter something like “poor damn cop” or “poor dumb cop”. Scoggins also picked Oswald from a police lineup that night.
The closest witness was Domingo Benavides, he estimated he was 15 feet from Tippit’s car. “I saw him-I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired...
It continues with other witnesses seeing Oswald along his path as he was fleeing the scene of the crime.
These are the FACTS of the case, there’s much more in the book, including other witnesses who saw Oswald while he was fleeing and identified him in a police lineup that night.
Either Oswald killed Tippit, or all of these civilians were in on the conspiracy.
Quoting conspiracy theorists “theories” and timelines from a wiki source is the equivalent of “garbage in, garbage out”. The timeline “problem” is thoroughly debunked in Case Closed as well.
This is exactly what I’m talking about, Conspiracy Theorists come up with all these convoluted theories how Oswald couldn’t be here, couldn’t be there, etc. DESPITE the actual police records and witnesses, these stories become repeated and become part of the assasination lore in total disregard to all that happened right after Tippit’s shooting.
If it was you or I killing a police officer with multiple witnesses pulling us and only us out of a lineup mere hours after the crime, there’s little doubt we’d be spending our lives in the slammer.
As for Oswald being cool as a cucumber after being arrested. Many described him as proud as a peacock, like the cat who ate the canary. This was it, Oswald finally was SOMEBODY, if you know Oswalds personal history, this arrogant little SOB was proud as punch that he Killed Kennedy. He was so arrogant and delusional I’m pretty sure he would have acted as his own attorney, this is who Oswald was. A delusional wanna-be revolutionary. When he came back from the Soviet Union he was expecting hundreds of reporters and television cameras, when there was none he became very depressed and bitter and that snub went a long way to the “I’ll show them” mentality he had when he killed Kennedy.
NEXT!
I thoroughly proved you HAVE NOT read Posner’s book, you asked questions that were thoroughly answered in his book with tons of documentation.
As for ZERO evidence, speak for yourself.
Present your “evidence” if you like. Also try and keep up, it was not me who said he shot Kennedy to impress a woman.
Stop slamming Posner’s book, you either haven’t read it or just dismiss it out of hand with the wave of your magical conspiracy wand. Saying he offers no proof to contradict eyewitness testimony is an out and out LIE.
How about the testimony of 2 men who were under the snipers nest who testified to the action of the rifle and said they heard the shots even the shells hitting the floor? Do you know about them? I doubt it.
They testified to the action of the Manlicker Carcano rifle before it was even recovered at the crime scene. There were also eyewitnesses that saw Oswald do the shooting, one with a perfect view facing Oswald. More things that people who haven’t read the book don’t know about. They only know about various “theories”, with no knowledge of the facts.
It is you who have ZERO evidence and only conjecture, not I.
Feel free to post your “evidence” and we’ll see who has the knowledge.
Hey Sam!
Interview him NOW!
Did you ever stop to think what happens if he says “yes”?
It could really screw up the liberal desire to ignore the abuse he’s heaped upon the Cuban people.
Well, what we have here is one set of quotes compared to another set of quotes — but it doesn’t seem to settle the issue. From what I read, there are some serious questions and I don’t see them answered — but only — another set of quotes...
It appears that all we’re gonna have is something like —
Person A’s Theory — his accompanying set of quotes from people and his facts...
Person B’s Theory — his accompanying set of quotes from people and his facts...
Person C’s Theory — his accompanying set of quotes from people and his facts...
This pretty much sums it up, I would say — as to how different people approach it...
You see..., I just presented some general facts from some source and some people being quoted, and then you presented your general facts from some source and some people being quoted...
Then you say, “These are the correct quotes and these are the correct facts — ignore the other quotes and ignore the other facts...
Well..., that’s the whole problem — there doesn’t seem to be an answer back to those other facts and other people’s quotes that one is supposed to “dismiss” — except for — “Just ignore those over there!” ... LOL...
I don’t call “Just ignore those over there, because they don’t count!” — as too generally persuasive to me. :-)
WRONG.
I presented the ACTUAL FACTS FROM THE POLICE INVESTIGATION of Tippits murder.
You quoted a bunch of conspiracy theorists “theories” from Wikipedia.
They are NOT EQUAL.
I guess nothing is persuasive to you, you do nothing to contradict these peoples testimony and the FACT that they pulled Oswald and Oswald alone out of a police lineup mere hours after they witnessed the killing and Oswald on his escape route.
As I suspected, you’re hopeless, you just dismiss the police investigation and give equal validity to Conspiracy “Theories”. If you can’t see the difference than there’s no sense in trying to have a reasonable exchange with you.
You were talking about ballistics and physics, but I don’t recall talking about that, so I’m not sure where you came up with that. I mean if we were going to get into some of that, then I would think I would need to bring it up, first in order for you to answer back to me on that issue... LOL...
What I was saying is that basically that I don’t think it was Oswald doing the shooting (i.e., “not there” at the window...). Someone was there, but not Oswald.
I’m not convinced that someone can actually put Oswald there at that window. He was certainly in the building, because he was employed there, but I don’t think that it’s possible to put him at that window, other than simply to say that it’s a conclusion that someone is making to that effect.
However, it would appear, to me, at least, that from where Oswald was seen earlier, it would be impossible for him to be at that window at the proper time. That’s just what I’ve seen in some other testimony and comments about Oswald in that building at the time.
Well, the basis I go on, is to consider all testimony and then try to work it all in and eliminate what is clearly incorrect and then find out what is correct.
What you seem to be doing is — first — eliminating what you don’t like and then saying “You can only look at this evidence over here, and nothing else!”
Ummm..., that’s not how you go back and review a case to see if you can see something that no one else caught or saw before.
All you end up accomplishing by saying “I’ll only take evidence from *here*!” — is to simply arrive at the same place that the people who used that before — arrived at. You’ve got no fresh look at evidence. You’ve simply got “re-runs” and nothing more.
I’m for looking at it all — and you don’t want to look at it all...
That doesn’t bode well for a good approach to re-examining a case. It sounds more like an approach of someone wishing to *justify* one particular approach to the exclusion of everything else.
You’re obviously close minded to a “re-examination” and — instead — only want a “re-hash” of the same thing...
:-)
Forget it Pistol.
He just repeats lies from the various conspiracy theorists and calls them “facts”.
Saying Oswald couldn’t be in that window (wait he said IMPOSSIBLE!) is another myth of the CT’s that has been debunked 100 times but they still repeat it.
He can only parrot the conspiracy line, he has no interest in the actual investigation of the Dallas PD and other organizations which has been documented in Case Closed and Reclaiming History. He’ll never read those books, it will take away all his fun of pretending to be a know-it-all who can’t be tricked by the “government’s story”.
You said — He just repeats lies from the various conspiracy theorists and calls them “facts”.
—
I’m still in the “investigative” phase and haven’t ended up eliminating things yet...
Y’all seem to want to eliminate everything right off the bat.. :-)
I like to think that a good re-examination is worthwhile. But, apparently y’all think re-examining is too dangerous or something... not sure what it is... to tell you the truth, because it’s sure *weird* how upset y’all get over a discussion... LOL...
It’s almost like the very words, mentioning another witness saying something different — contains a “pathogen” that you’re scared to death of — and you might catch a deathly disease. It’s to that extent that you have your “reactions” here... just plain *weird* actually....
You’re totally hopeless. You have no idea how I think, since you have NO B.S. meter and logic and reason mean nothing to you.
You continually put words in my mouth and say I see “this and nothing else” nonsense.
Stop lying and repeating CT’s “theories” I have looked at it all and you ONLY look at the CT’s “theories” with no knowledge of the case at all.
Stop projecting your wholesale inadequacies on me, you know nothing about Oswald, nothing about the various “points” you parrot which have been de-bunked years ago. Even CT’s don’t bother with some of the nonsense you cite as facts because they know they’re bogus.
You know nothing about the assasination except the smarmy, smart-aleck, hack talking points and dismissing everything out of hand or calling me a government shill, etc. Straight out of the paranoid CT handbook.
Your post is just plain weird and creepy, as have been many of your other posts.
Claiming that I view alternate theories as a pathogen that I’m scared to death of is pure projection or just fantasy on your part.
You are one strange dude.
My, my... someone sure has their shorts in a knot... I think you better untie them before you continue posting here...
I’ve never seen someone so angry about JFK Assassination than you. My conclusion is that it can’t be about the assassination itself, because who could get that upset over it... LOL..
It’s gotta be your shorts don’t fit...
Talk about “strange” ... hmmm..., I’ve never seen someone so “bent-out-of-shape” about the JFK Assassination... LOL...
You’re projecting again. I’m not angry, it’s clear you have no B.S. meter, no capacity for critical thinking, no ability to honestly debate.
It remains a fact that you know little of the JFK case except like most CT’s to parrot various talking points that have been debunked years ago, I’m not impressed, you’re not a worthy opponent. You’re simply a hack who has no interest in any honest exchange. Not to mention being paranoid and going off into wild tangents calling me a “government shill” and assigning all kinds of mysterious maladies and ailments to me.
All you can do is continue to be a poser, with your LOL’s and your ; ) ‘s as if you know what you’re talking about. You have no idea what you’re talking about on this subject, you can only fool yourself, not me.
Well, heck, from the “sound” of your posts, I’m afraid I’ll give you a heart attack and I wouldn’t want to be blamed for someone dying on this board. I mean, when someone gets so upset like that, I don’t see any good reason to make them all the more upset... ya know... :-)
Keep projecting and posing all you want, keep fantasizing about how you think I feel if it makes you feel better about yourself and your fantasy life as a know it all.
You’re only kidding yourself.
I almost feel guilty, it’s like I’m prodding a mental patient with a pointy stick.
Stick to your various fantasies and conspiracy theories, you and reality don’t mix
Well, all I know is when I see someone walking on the other side of the street, hollering and yelling at people, I usually stay as far away as possible. I don’t try to engage in a lot of conversation, ya know? :-)
This don’t sound like too much of a “discussion” to me... LOL..
You’re incapable of an honest discussion. You’re fantasy construct as a know it all won’t allow it. All you can do is project. You know nothing about the JFK assasination, the best you can do is quote conspiracy theories from Wiki, call me a government shill and pretend that you’re so brilliant that you’re giving me a heart attack. That’s pure fantasy from your “mind”.
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