Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

End of Tax Free Internet shopping may be near
ZDNet ^ | Apr 16, 2009 5:23:59 AM | By Declan McCullagh CNET News

Posted on 04/16/2009 9:09:31 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th

If a little-known but influential alliance of state politicians, large retailers, and tax collectors have their way, the days of tax-free Internet shopping may be nearly over.

A bill expected to be introduced in the U.S. Congress as early as Monday would rewrite the ground rules for mail order and Internet sales by eliminating what its supporters view as a "loophole" that, in many cases, allows Americans to shop over the Internet without paying sales taxes.

Currently, Americans who shop over the Internet from out-of-state vendors aren't always required to pay sales taxes at the time of purchase. Californians buying books from Amazon.com or cameras from Manhattan's B&H Photo, for example, won't pay sales taxes at checkout time that they would if shopping at a local mall.

"We will have the bill ready for introduction by next Monday," said Neal Osten of the National Conference of State Legislatures. "We finalized the language and now we're working out the remaining issues and adding some new provisions at the request of various stakeholders."

This is hardly a new debate: pro-tax officials and state governments have been pressing Congress to enact such a law for at least seven years. They argue that reduced sales tax revenue threatens budgets for schools and police, and say that, as a matter of fairness, online retailers should be forced to collect the same taxes that brick-and-mortar retailers do.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.zdnet.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 111th; congress; economy; internet; taxes; taxfree
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-94 next last
To: a fool in paradise

LIARS, every DAMN one of them. Including the Republicans.


61 posted on 04/16/2009 10:00:59 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: KevinDavis; All

Intriguing.

Maybe we’re talking past each other here. How is wanting equal treatment for all “liberal”? I thought that liberals would tilt the playing field until the score was equal — tie the best players up if necessary.


62 posted on 04/16/2009 10:03:13 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: 1_Rain_Drop

Did you send the gift you purchased for someone get sent to a third state being the destination state? What a crock of crap. Business will tear their hair out on this.


63 posted on 04/16/2009 10:04:10 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

The locals still have benefits: face to face interaction instead of fixing problems over the phone (this includes knowing each other by name, as opposed to being customer #007837678 or somesuch), getting something right now for the cost of gasoline and your time (instead of paying out the nose (or elsewhere) for next-day shipping), no “oops, we lost your package” nightmares. I usually buy local because I don’t like waiting on a delivery; I’m impatient, always have been (working on it). It’s funny, too. I’m 25 so you’d figure I’d be this tech-savvy little kid permanently attached to a computer to order goods. I hate ordering stuff online, I’d rather pay in cash locally. It’s like I was possessed by the soul of some crotchety 70-year old retiree that hates “all this blinkin’ flashin’ newfangled electronic crap.”


64 posted on 04/16/2009 10:08:37 AM PDT by mbennett203 ("Bulrog, a tough brute ninja who has dedicated his life to eradicating the world from hippies.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: TaraP
What’s next..Tax Garage Sales?

And Yard Sales. You need a permit in San Antonio for those.

65 posted on 04/16/2009 10:14:03 AM PDT by Sarajevo (You jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Snoopers-868th
They argue that reduced sales tax revenue threatens budgets for schools and police, and say that, as a matter of fairness...

...Government should shrink back down to its Constitutionally mandated size and leave the business of running your life to you.

But, I suppose that they would not want to put their government union constituency and the rest of the welfare system at risk - they do want to be reelected.

So they never considered the alternative - liberty.

66 posted on 04/16/2009 10:15:46 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mbennett203

WHen I’m saving 62% over the retail price, even with shipping included, I can deal with being customer #007837678.


67 posted on 04/16/2009 10:15:53 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD

Exactly. And I still add that if they can go to another state contractually and use my tax dollars to pay for the out of state contract then they can go screw themselves. I want the ability to receive the same lower cost by going out of state to spend my money.


68 posted on 04/16/2009 10:19:41 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: mbennett203; KarlInOhio
Your points about the advantages of local shopping are good. If those advantages give the local retailer an edge in the marketplace; that's fair. Similarly if the advantages of bulk buying wholesale discounts, low overhead, and large selection give the on-line retailer an edge in the marketplace; that's only fair.

What's not fair is unequal tax treatment. If you can't do away with taxes altogether; at least apply them fairly. Fair doesn't necessarily mean “the same” — as KarlInOhio pointed out, the services received should also be considered.

69 posted on 04/16/2009 10:20:56 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: TaraP

You are required to pay sales tax from garage sales. It’s been many years since I held one, but you are SUPPOSED to.


70 posted on 04/16/2009 10:21:29 AM PDT by Amityschild
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
The Internet is all that is holding states, counties and municipalities back from even higher taxes on local businesses.

You miss the point. Tax competition is a theme of Federalism. It maintains liberty.

By recognizing that you need a physical presence in a state/locality to be taxed by it limits the power/authority to tax. Without that limitation, which has been exceeded in most areas of our lives, what cannot be taxed?

Brick and mortars are actually protected by no Internet taxes. It forms a sea-anchor against additional tax increases. American businesses move overseas not for the low labor (productivity is critical), but to escape taxation, excessive regulation, and onerous litigation.

It seems counterintuitive, but consider that the brick and mortars are fully at the mercy of local governments. They daren’t resist.

71 posted on 04/16/2009 10:21:32 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD

“Brick and mortars are actually protected by no Internet taxes.”

Good points. If tax competition keeps taxes down; then that’s the best solution. Meanwhile though, Amazon and the like are getting an unfair advantage from the taxman.


72 posted on 04/16/2009 10:27:51 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: MediaMole
In most states, a purchaser is still responsible for paying those taxes. This would force merchants to set up tax collection for hundreds, if not thousands of different tax rates and tax authorities.

Think of all the different sales tax rates. Some states have state, city and county sales taxes that vary within zip codes. Some even have special regional tax authorities on top of these.

It will be a bonanza for IT companies that sell tax collection software.

It IS a bonanza for some IT companies selling tax collection software/services. The state I work in has "joined" the Streamlined Sales Tax initiative so now we have to abide by the rules set by the SST. The company I work for decided to purchase the web based services of one of the software companies that provided the tax rates and reporting. Believe me, it is not cheap. I'm guessing it's around $27k for 600k transactions per year.

I had to integrate all of our software with the web based service and the tax rate charged to our customer is based on the destination of the product. We have a "nexus" (sales/service branch) in every state we ship to so if our customer is in California and we ship from our distribution center in Nevada, the customer would pay the tax rate for their State & Municipality. The service we subscribe to reports the transactional data back to us broken down by how much State and local taxes were paid. In some instances, there are 4 different taxes paid per item purchased. The service then reports to us how much we owe each state and municipality.

Frankly, I think it is a crock of crap. I was pi$$ed that I had to do the development work for our company on this project. It just made me more and more angry the further into it I got.
73 posted on 04/16/2009 10:28:04 AM PDT by copaliscrossing (Progressives are Socialists)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Why should the likes of Amazon be (in effect) subsidized, at the expense of local businesses?

Why should internet retailers be punished by having to comply with every single state's tax laws, which is a much (MUCH!) more onerous burden? Online purchases, further, have shipping associated with them. Now, online retailers will have to know, keep up to date on, and apply at least 50 different standards?

Either way, the government subsidizes a business model.

How does one deal with offshore internet retailers?

74 posted on 04/16/2009 10:28:37 AM PDT by MortMan (Power without responsibility-the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages. - Rudyard Kipling)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Why should the likes of Amazon be (in effect) subsidized, at the expense of local businesses?

Because unlike a brick-and-mortar store that has a physical presence in the taxing jurisdiction, Amazon doesn't require police protection, fire protection, water, sewer, sanitation, zoning, planning, or roadways or other infrastructure.

75 posted on 04/16/2009 10:30:08 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Snoopers-868th

Absolutely, keep the Internet tax free.


76 posted on 04/16/2009 10:30:15 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

No, the brick and mortars are getting the raw deal. It is the populace that is subsidized through business/investor owned Real Estate.

They vote, but businesses/investors cannot vote on property owned, only where they live. So you get them paying for your schools, police, fire, sanitation, water, etc.

All of which are better off in private hands for the most part. If taxes were fair you’d only pay them on property where you could vote.

No taxation without representation is fundamental to the idea of America.


77 posted on 04/16/2009 10:33:45 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Snoopers-868th

translation, instead of other states we will be shopping OTHER COUNTRIES tax free.

bone heads and illiterates are writing these laws.


78 posted on 04/16/2009 10:47:09 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
What's not fair is unequal tax treatment.

The Commerce Clause of the US Constitution (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3) specifies that only the federal government can tax and regulate interstate and international commerce. Without it states would try to pass taxes on businesses in other locations without having to deal with the wrath of local taxpayers. How many states are getting around it is by calling it a use tax rather than a sales tax. This shouldn't pass legal muster since the effect is the same, but as long as the tax rate is the same for local businesses the courts are looking the other way.

Life isn't fair and can't be made so. Is it fair and equal to tax higher income people at special higher tax rates? The definition of fairness depends on whose ox is being gored.

79 posted on 04/16/2009 10:47:51 AM PDT by Reeses (Leftism is powered by the evil force of envy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: tumblindice

shipping is paying FEDERAL taxes in fuel and transit fees.

so the states think the fed is just going to “give up” that revenue stream?


80 posted on 04/16/2009 10:52:55 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-94 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson