Federal court halts deportation of Demjanjuk

Another illegal not deported.

The Obama administration may have a job for him soon; after all he has the experience!

Surprised....usually white folks of European background do not get the special rights reserved for those of darker skin and more illegal alien background

This is such a case of double jeopardy.

I might take some crap but leave the guy alone already.
Enough is Enough. Even the Jews released him after a conviction.

Darn, beat me too it!

No crap from me, I agree with you.

Darn, beat me too it!

This may surprise you, but I agree with you. He was already tried in an israeli court and released.

Let it go.

At this point in time, it would seem to me, that this entire process for this guy has been a slow process of torture... hoo-boy...

Then again, maybe that’s what some people have been trying to do...

Oh well, the legal system plods along.

I agree with you too. He’s 89 years old and confined to a wheel chair. Leave the guy alone already.

I am against illegal immigrants and murderers in all cases. Why should this creep get a pass?

BTW the Israeli court merely dismissed the assertion that he was a specific “Ivan the terrible”, but there is no doubt about him working in the death camp.

Guilty as sin, free like a bird.

A pass? This has been going on since 1977, we have given him citizenship twice now and even Israel after having convicted him, overturned the conviction based on new evidence that he was not the guy.

None of this is serving any justice to victims of despotic nations such as was the evil Nazi regime.

I also agree with you.

but there is no doubt about him working in the death camp.

In what capacity? Was he just a guard or what. There were thousands of germans and jewish collaborators working in death camps. Does not mean they were involved in the slaughter of people.

I'll paste a little of my responses on The True Haters below. There's no question he was a member of the SS, entered the US illegally and obtained his citizenship illegally. It should be stripped and he should be deported. If he's too ill, then he has to convince the court. As to Star Traveler's speculation, At this point in time, it would seem to me, that this entire process for this guy has been a slow process of torture... hoo-boy...Then again, maybe that’s what some people have been trying to do..., this case has dragged on for three decades because Demjanjuk has fought deportation for three decades, unsuccessfully. It's an absurd amount of time, but that's our system. But he bears the responsibility for the delay. He could have left the country in the 70s when the issue arose.

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Yes, there’s evidence. Every court in the US has ruled unequivocally that Demjanjuk was a member of the SS and lied when entering the country and later when obtaining citizenship, which is the only role for the US courts. We deport illegal’s or when countries we have extradition treaties with want them for prosecution, we extradite them. Pat’s exception to the immigration laws for Nazis isn’t part of our legal system.

And there’s copious evidence that Demjanjuk, as a red army prisoner, volunteered for the SS, serving at Trawniki, Majdanek Sobibor, Flossenberg and probably Treblinka. Some witness testimony, some of them now dead, some documentary. Yes, some from the Soviets which Pat will claim as unreliable, some from Nazi records and SS members which are, of course unrealiable, some from Jewish survivors, who Pat dismisses as mentally ill, thus always unreliable. Whether he’ll even be tried in Germany we’ll see, his age may be an issue, but it’s their call. Spain wants him too.

Amongst the questions Pat never answers, if diesel fumes can’t kill Jews, what happened to the Christians? The technique was first used on political prisoners and Polish POWs. . Flossenberg, half the dead were political prisoners, amongst them allied agents and the plotters against Hitler. Had it coming, I guess. In general I’m not a big Wikipedia fan, but their page on Demjanjuk is pretty good.

Next week, Pat will whine about the Nazi being deported to Serbia.

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It’s not a pity, I’m sure you can find reviews of the book elsewhere, and you can find evidence everywhere. The problem is, it won’t be selective, stating simply that Israel overturned his conviction as Ivan the terrible, In the result, the 'Wachman' Ivan Demjanjuk is acquitted, by reason of doubt, of the outrageous crimes attributed to Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka , it will include other facts less pleasing to Holocaust deniers and Nazi sympathizers. Which clearly demonstrate his membership in the SS, thus the propriety of the US actions.

8. As to Demjanjuk's enlisting in the S.S., his preparation and training at Trawninki and his service as a member of the killing team at the Sobibor camp the 'Trawniki certificate' constituted a central axis of evidence. The 'Trawniki certificate' is an original nazi certificate of Demjanjuk's containing his portrait photograph, his personal particulars, his S.S. service number (1393) and a record of his being posted to two places where he served during the war period Okshov and the Sobibor death camp.

The certificate was sent to Israel from the U.S.S.R., having been located there in an archives in which were kept nazi documents captured by the Red Army in the summer of 1944 and thereafter.

Contrary to the approach which governed the proceedings in the United States, the certificate was perceived by the Prosecution in Israel as a most important piece of evidence in proving Demjanjuk's guilt from both the factual and the legal point of view.

First, the prosecution was of the opinion that this was preponderant unambiguous evidence of Demjanjuk's being an S.S. soldier, who underwent training and preparation at the S.S. camp at Trawninki, which is to say that it determines his general status. Not an innocent man as he pleaded but a nazi criminal of the worst kind.

Second, the certificate enables the determination to be made that Demjanjuk was one of a limited number of Wachmans chosen to serve as murderers at the death camps particularly Sobibor on March 27, 1943. Out of several million Russian prisoners of war, held at the POW camps of nazi Germany, only about 5,000 volunteered to serve the S.S. in various capacities. Of these, serving at camps whose sole purpose was nothing but killing (as distinct from concentration camps or forced labor camps) about 500 Wachmans only. This determination has a direct bearing on Demjanjuk's crimes. And indirectly the Prosecution alleged, it also placed him nearer Treblinka. A not less important incidental result was the absolute refutation of the alibi plea based on the certificate, since it was not possible to be a POW in detention, and an S.S. man holding such a certificate at one and the same time.

This view of matters prompted the prosecution to invest great efforts, so that the proof of the veracity of the certificate, with all that that implied, would be completely unbreachable. What made the point even sharper was the fact that since the case began to be conducted in the United states and all along the way the main plea of the defense was that the certificate was a KGB forgery, that no such certificates were ever issued to Wachmans, and that this one had been created from scratch and sent to the United States in order to incriminate Demjanjuk in the eyes of the U.S. authorities.

Accordingly the need to prove the bona fides of the document from every possible aspect led the prosecution to present in court three sets of evidence on the subject.

- An historical set: which was analysed with the aid of experts from Germany having a perspective and historical expertise on the one hand and German witnesses having served with the S.S. at Trawniki in the relevant years on the other hand everything written on the certificate, including stamps, signtures, ranks etc., so as to prove that they were consistent with the facts as they had actually been in real time.

- A forensic set: proved with the aid of local and foreign experts the authenticity of each element found on the certificate and which was verifiable: either by analyzing the document and the signatures and examining them by way of document comparison, or by chemical and other analyses of the paper on which the certificate was written, fountain pen ink, typewriter ribbon ink, the ink of the stamps on the certificate, the printed lettering, the typed lettering, the photographic paper of Demjanjuk's photograph on the certificate, glue and other stains on it, marks of attrition, grooves, creases, perforations etc.

- Attributing the certificate to Demjanjuk: an application to prove that writing and entries on the certificate correspond to his personal particulars, including a comparative anthropological analysis of his facial features, as appearing on the passport photograph thereon with other known passport photographs of Demjanjuk's.

Also testifying was a Prison Service physician Dr. Zigelbaum, as regards two important medical details: the location of a scar on Demjanjuk's back a detail appearing in the German entries on the Trawniki certificate as a special identifying mark of the bearer of the certificate and thereby imparting to the certificate yet another touch of authenticity. A scar was likewise found under Demjanjuk's left armpit remaining from the S.S. tattoo that existed there in the past, and which was removed by Demjanjuk after the war, by reason of being so incriminating.

I agree. Let him go from his own to his own.

BTW the Israeli court merely dismissed the assertion that he was a specific “Ivan the terrible”, but there is no doubt about him working in the death camp.”

Then why has Israel NOT indicted him on ANY other charges? If there was any race, country or group that would hunt down a murderer of Jews it would be Israel. The Mossad had 40 years where they could have kidnapped him out of the US or just made sure he was in an oops, fatal accident.

They didn’t because there was no proof other than the misguided, self inflating testimony of extremely aged camp survivors.

He’s the wrong guy.