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Questioning the wisdom of a 'smart grid' (and the privacy implications)
Marketwatch.com ^ | Today | Thomas Kostigen

Posted on 04/10/2009 4:54:11 AM PDT by theBuckwheat

SANTA MONICA, Calif. (MarketWatch) -- Rampant reports of hackers tapping into electricity grids and planning for further subterfuge are causing some people to question the government's new push for a nationwide "smart grid."

...

Joshua Pennell is chief executive of IOActive, a security services and software assurance firm in Seattle. In a presentation to the Department of Homeland Security, Pennell says the Smart Grid has "inherent security flaws" and could further expose the country to attacks on our critical power infrastructure. His firm conducted industry research and claims that a smart grid could "expose utility companies to possible fraud, extortion attempts, lawsuits or widespread system interruption." ...

(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: grid; liberty; privacy; terrorism
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While going to a smart grid also gives us the opportunity to increase its resistance to EMP, it also invites hacking and would destroy energy-use privacy and liberty.
1 posted on 04/10/2009 4:54:12 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat
...worried about privacy and the Chinese are crawling around the grid like Congressmen on pork day?
2 posted on 04/10/2009 4:57:17 AM PDT by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: theBuckwheat

I don’t have a problem with smart grid if it ends somewhere well short of my house.


3 posted on 04/10/2009 4:58:03 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: theBuckwheat
“would destroy energy-use privacy and liberty.”

How so?

4 posted on 04/10/2009 4:58:45 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: theBuckwheat

bookmark


5 posted on 04/10/2009 4:59:26 AM PDT by Puddleglum (Obama's just another word for nothin' left to lose)
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To: theBuckwheat

Smart grid == Electricity rationing.

Nothing to do with resistance to EMP, that’s just thrown in for the sheep to graze on.


6 posted on 04/10/2009 5:00:20 AM PDT by Tarpon (You abolish your responsibilities, your surrender your rights.)
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To: Realism

Our energy secretary has expressed a desire to turn your air conditioner down remotely during peak usage hours.


7 posted on 04/10/2009 5:01:16 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: cripplecreek

“has expressed a desire to turn your air conditioner down remotely during peak usage hours.”

That would be great if I could set it up to do that. Not so great if someone else is remotely playing with my stuff.


8 posted on 04/10/2009 5:10:52 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: Realism

Exactly. I’m not totally opposed to smart grid tech but don’t want anyone else to control my electricity usage. Besides, I can already program my A/C to go to energy saving when I’m not home and power up shortly before I’ll be home.


9 posted on 04/10/2009 5:17:04 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: cripplecreek
“I can already program my A/C”

Wish I could do that with the hot tub. I run solar electric so being billed at a real time rate would work out great in my situation.

10 posted on 04/10/2009 5:32:56 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: cripplecreek

This is already done in many cities, has been in Austin for possibly 7-10 years ... technology (thermostats) have been around at least this long. Energy Secretary is a little late.


11 posted on 04/10/2009 5:35:09 AM PDT by K-oneTexas (I'm not a judge and there ain't enough of me to be a jury. (Zell Miller, A National Party No More))
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To: K-oneTexas

There are also several entrepreneurs selling devices to interfere with the monitoring devices. They range from faraday cages around the thermostat to prevent signals from escaping to what are essentially EMF jammers that prevent the thermostat from reporting to the utility.


12 posted on 04/10/2009 5:56:11 AM PDT by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Humanity's Edge" - on amazon.com)
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To: theBuckwheat

The last part is the whole point.

The left seeks to control every aspect of your life.

When they get your energy usage under their control, as well as your wages, your food intake, your healthcare, and how your children are educated,

they have reached their goal of total control.


13 posted on 04/10/2009 5:58:08 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: Realism

They will know how much YOUR HOUSE is using in electricity at any moment, and have the ability to shut you off, or “adjust” your thermostat if you are using “too much”.


14 posted on 04/10/2009 5:59:09 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: cripplecreek
Besides, I can already program my A/C to go to energy saving when I’m not home and power up shortly before I’ll be home.

Shortly before you are home is likely late afternoon. That is the time when electricity use is the highest the utilities are most likely to shut you down until sunset.

Just like most energy savings systems, I expect this to happen.

1. Utility gives customers ways to cut down on electricity/gas usage (insulation, fluorescent lights, automatic thermostats).
2. Customers act on those recommendations and actually cut energy usage.
3. Revenues at the utility is cut down, causing profits to drop.
4. Utility cries to state regulators that they need a higher billing rate to maintain profits despite selling less.
5. Customer ends up paying the same amount for less energy than before step 1.

15 posted on 04/10/2009 6:17:22 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (No free man bows to a foreign king.)
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To: tbw2
I played around with the idea of a Peltier cooler/heater attached to your thermostat to convince it that the room temperature is lower/higher than it really is so you can turn on the heat/air conditioner even when the thermostat says you shouldn't be able to. The user would be able to change what the offset from the real temperature the thermostat senses.
16 posted on 04/10/2009 6:22:25 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (No free man bows to a foreign king.)
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To: theBuckwheat

There is no such thing as a “smart grid”

This is fiction. It is the creation of an activist Government which has co-opted the efforts what used to be two of the worlds premier innovators - IBM and GE.

What they are calling a “smart grid” is the goal of allowing governmental control of energy demand through a series of remotely monitored and controlled demand meters. There is nothing “smarter” about the grid, or more efficient in the distribution.

The subtext of this is that the eco-wacos have virtually eliminated the concept of building more electric generating capacity, the only way to avoid disruptions is to limit demand - by force of law.

smart. really smart.


17 posted on 04/10/2009 6:42:47 AM PDT by crescen7 (game on)
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To: KarlInOhio
1. Utility gives customers ways to cut down on electricity/gas usage (insulation, fluorescent lights, automatic thermostats).
2. Customers act on those recommendations and actually cut energy usage.
3. Revenues at the utility is cut down, causing profits to drop.
4. Utility cries to state regulators that they need a higher billing rate to maintain profits despite selling less.
5. Customer ends up paying the same amount for less energy than before step 1.

Rinse and repeat.

18 posted on 04/10/2009 7:26:31 AM PDT by magslinger (I talk to myself but sometimes I like a third opinion.)
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To: KarlInOhio

Hell, nah. Easier to just feed their stat 24V and let it think it’s controlling something so it can report back to the busybodies on schedule, while your real stat works just like it always has. The only thing that would throw a wrench in that works is if it reports the real time temp and then they can’t figure out why it’s cooler than it’s supposed to be “allowed” to be. Then you just need to mount it in a closet or somewhere it doesn’t get any air from the HVAC.


19 posted on 04/10/2009 8:48:49 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: crescen7

GE an innovator? Please. They buy technology developed by others or just buy the whole company and fire those responsible for the innovation and screw up the product. Rinse and repeat.


20 posted on 04/10/2009 8:50:27 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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