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PC-12 Crash May Have Killed 17 (17 people aboard 12-seat aircraft)
AVWEB ^ | 3/23/09

Posted on 03/23/2009 6:34:04 AM PDT by pabianice

An FAA spokesman is quoted by the New York Times as saying as many as 17 people, many of them children, were on board a 12-seat Pilatus PC-12 and all died when the aircraft crashed and exploded in a cemetery in Butte, Montana on Sunday. Les Dorr told the Times that 14 to 17 people were on the aircraft, which left Oroville, Calif., 70 miles north of Sacramento, Calif. for Bozeman, Mont.. The plane diverted to Butte en route and crashed within 500 feet of the airport. The reason for the diversion has not been released but Butte would have been a closer alternative if the pilot had been experiencing problems. According to FlightAware, the flight originated at Brown Field in San Diego and made three stops before the crash.

Local media is reporting that the aircraft was loaded with children heading for a ski vacation...

(Excerpt) Read more at avweb.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Montana
KEYWORDS: butte; planecrash
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To: MikeGranby
If they were lap children, it could be legal.

What does being "Finnish" have to do with it?

21 posted on 03/23/2009 6:59:34 AM PDT by erman (Outside of a dog, a book is man's best companion. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.)
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To: Thermalseeker
If indeed it was rented (where can you rent a PC-12?)

From the article:

The aircraft involved was owned by Eagle Cap Leasing, of Enterprise, Ore., and had reportedly been rented.

22 posted on 03/23/2009 7:01:16 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Boiler Plate
There are Old pilots and there are Bold pilots, but there are no Old Bold pilots.

Chuck Yeager is pretty old.

23 posted on 03/23/2009 7:03:27 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: theDentist
It crashed into a cemetary..... keep digging, you’ll get it.


In bad taste, but still humorous

24 posted on 03/23/2009 7:05:18 AM PDT by boxerblues (Party like its 1773)
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To: pabianice; All

While the plane was certainly overloaded, I’m not convinced that was the primary cause of the crash. After all, they flew all the way from California to Butte, Montana before they crashed. Bingo fuel, perhaps?


25 posted on 03/23/2009 7:08:59 AM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: pabianice

many years ago, before jets were used for commercial aircraft, an airliner went straight down and all that was left was a deep crater. The story told was there were no bodies, only a huge body of flesh. The hole was covered and a monument erected. I saw it somewhere in Southern Indiana, not far from Tell City.


26 posted on 03/23/2009 7:11:21 AM PDT by elpadre (nation)
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To: Boiler Plate
There are Old pilots and there are Bold pilots, but there are no Old Bold pilots.

An old flight instructor once told me "The three things a pilot has no use for are fuel left in the truck, altitude above you and ideas you haven't thought of yet." Unfortunately one or more of these applied to this situation. God bless the families.

27 posted on 03/23/2009 7:14:27 AM PDT by River_Wrangler (Nothing difficult is ever easy!)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY

Look at the fireball - if the plane was out of fuel, you wouldn’t have seen that.

May I ask that while it’s natural to speculate (I have), it would be nice to cast permanent aspersions against the pilot until we know something.

Also, the PC-12 was certified to have the same stall speed (about 61-65 knots) as most single-engine piston aircraft. It’s a well-made, extremely capable plane. If I had the dough, I’d get one.


28 posted on 03/23/2009 7:18:22 AM PDT by bootless (Never Forget. Never Again. And NEVER GIVE UP!)
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To: Thermalseeker

Ask around the office ... unless you work for in a government office of course!


29 posted on 03/23/2009 7:21:18 AM PDT by George from New England (escaped CT 2006; now living north of Tampa Bay)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY
One of the first reports said that witnesses saw the plane "yanking and banking", like the pilot was giving the passengers a real sightseeing tour. I suspect he got the wing too vertical for too long and stalled out like the hotshot pilot of that B-52 did in 1991.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVaAVN94sTs

30 posted on 03/23/2009 7:21:21 AM PDT by Dumpster Baby (The chair is against the wall. John has a long mustache.)
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To: saganite
I don’t think weight is the determining factor here because these were children. FAA allows 170 lbs for an adult, not sure how much for children but in any case the PC-12 mis a very capable airplane and would carry that weight without any problem. I’m thinking pilot error associated with some other aspect of the flight.

Five children sitting in people's laps? Maybe one of them got loose. Very sad either way.

31 posted on 03/23/2009 7:22:18 AM PDT by earlJam
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To: MikeGranby

Maybe if Octo-mom was on the flight...IIRC lap children rules only apply to kids under the age of two. Above that, they get their own seat. So if there were a lot of sub-two-year-olds on the flight, yeah. I don’t know how you’d even fit 17 people in a PC-12 otherwise...you’d almost have to have kids sitting on the floor.

}:-)4


32 posted on 03/23/2009 7:25:31 AM PDT by Moose4 (Hey RNC. Don't move toward the middle. MOVE THE MIDDLE TOWARD YOU.)
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To: George from New England
Ask around the office ... unless you work for in a government office of course

No, no gubmint worker here. I don't work in any office other than my own, but I asked around, and I know of no FBO anywhere near me that has anything much better than a 172 for rent, maybe the occasional Arrow or a Diamond 4 placer, but certainly not a PC-12. I don't even want to know what that costs for insurance, much less the hourly rate. Probably would have been much cheaper to go commercial.....

33 posted on 03/23/2009 7:27:30 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem - Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: Moose4
I don’t know how you’d even fit 17 people in a PC-12 otherwise...

Skydivers could probably fit 40 in a PC-12. You'd be stunned if you saw the load I saw get out of a Cessna Caravan near a local DZ when I was taking my reserve 'chute over for a repack. It was unbelievable. I quit counting at 18....

34 posted on 03/23/2009 7:31:35 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem - Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY

The plane wasn’t necessarily overloaded. Several of the passengers were children and could have been riding on laps.


35 posted on 03/23/2009 7:32:20 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: pabianice

NYT article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/03/22/us/AP-Plane-Crash-Montana.html?_r=2&hp

...said an airport worker in Oroville saw 10+ kids and four adults in the group before the plane took off. The kids were probably 6-10 years old.

If that’s right, there is no way that airplane could legally carry them. Maybe it could lift them, and maybe it could keep the weight and balance in limits, but there’s just not enough seats and seatbelts on a PC-12 for that many passengers. It’s not big enough.

}:-)4


36 posted on 03/23/2009 7:32:48 AM PDT by Moose4 (Hey RNC. Don't move toward the middle. MOVE THE MIDDLE TOWARD YOU.)
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To: pabianice

I am not an aircraft expert, and I don’t want to make excuses, but it seems to me we are concentrated on the wrong thing. What was it’s payload rating rather than it’s seating capacity. After all kids do not weigh as much as adults.


37 posted on 03/23/2009 7:33:09 AM PDT by aft_lizard (One animal actually eats its own brains to conserve energy, we call them liberals.)
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To: Thermalseeker

Well, a Caravan’s just a church van with wings and a turboprop anyway, isn’t it? :)

The PC-12 is a great airplane with a marvelous safety record and fantastic capabilities—heck, some guy landed one in a downtown street in Indiana a few years ago when the engine died and didn’t do any more damage than knock off one winglet. I just can’t wrap my head around shoving 15-16 passengers + 1-2 crew into one, even if half or more of the passengers are kids.

}:-)4


38 posted on 03/23/2009 7:36:02 AM PDT by Moose4 (Hey RNC. Don't move toward the middle. MOVE THE MIDDLE TOWARD YOU.)
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To: bootless
I hadn't seen the fireball photo until now; but most of the fire is a lodgepole pine going up. Also, although I did indeed speculate about the crash, at no time did I say the pilot was the cause. (Perhaps you mistook Dumpster Baby's post for mine.)
39 posted on 03/23/2009 7:36:02 AM PDT by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY ( The Constitution needs No interpreting, only APPLICATION!)
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To: pabianice

From the Butte, Montana newspaper:

http://mtstandard.com/articles/2009/03/23/area/hjjajghgjcicfg.txt


40 posted on 03/23/2009 7:38:50 AM PDT by Road Warrior ‘04 (I'll miss President Bush greatly! Palin in 2012!)
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