Posted on 03/22/2009 4:55:47 PM PDT by RobinMasters
WASHINGTON – While the subject of Barack Obama's birth certificate is still a topic most press outlets refuse to cover, it became a matter of sport in Vice President Joe Biden's Gridiron Dinner address this weekend.
After mentioning one of the Republican speakers for the evening, Arnold Schwarzenegger, was born in Austria and that one of the Democratic speakers, Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, was born in Canada, Biden chortled: "Folks, this is going to be Lou Dobbs' worst nightmare.
From there, Biden transitioned to the birth certificate controversy.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
For the millionth time it WAS NOT WINE. It was FRUIT OF THE VINE. The words are different.
He told them to drink and said drink in remembrance of me. NOT ONE VERSE SHOWS HIM DRINKING ANYTHING!!! READ IT!!!!
____You wrote: “BTW, drinking wine is not sinful”
You are woefully ignorant of the scriptures.
There are plenty of verses talking about drinking wine as a sin.
1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.
2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality
3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.
4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.
5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.
6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.
8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.
9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.
10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.
11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.
12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.
13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated
14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.
15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.
16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.
17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.
20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.
21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.
22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.
23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.
24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.
25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable
26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.
27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.
28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.
29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)
30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.
31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.
32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to “champion” drinkers and “experts” at mixing drinks.
33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.
34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.
35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.
36) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.
37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.
38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.
39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.
40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.
41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.
42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.
43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.
44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.
45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.
46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.
47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.
48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.
49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.
50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.
51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.
52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.
53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.
54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.
55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.
56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.
57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.
58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.
59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.
60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.
61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.
62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.
63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.
64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.
65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.
66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God
67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.
68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.
69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.
70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.
74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.
75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.
Why can’t it be both/and?
Good references regarding drunkeness, not in regards to prohibition and abstinence of all wine.
Do you really think the Hebrews and Romans alive at the time of Christ confused the meaning of grape juice and wine?
Do you really think that our Lord shared a cup of grape juice at the Last Supper?
Try some new fruit. Avoid legalism and grasping for morality and religion as a substitute for the spiritual life. Apply 1stJohn 1:9 and allow God to guide our understanding, rather than succombing to mine or yours.
I feel badly for you. You must think that Jesus was the only attendant at the Last Supper who didn’t eat or drink. How very sad.
I like to think of my Lord enjoying the meal with the men that He loved.
At the Passover meal (the Last Supper was a Passover meal) they most assuredly ate and drank together, like an family. And at such a meal, they did drink wine.
No matter how much you protest, it doesn’t make it untrue.
Swing by this website,
http://www.e-sword.net/downloads.html
download esword and some of the hebrew and greek dictionaries.
Run a search on the word, ‘wine’.
Compare the original Greek word used for the term in different verses. Let Scripture guide our believe, rather than our previously scarred thinking into reading somehing into Scripture that isn’t there.
GB
Legalism is Satan's method for focusing folks like you upon the things of this world with 'dos and don'ts', to distract from what is bubbling in and out of the heart, defiling the soul. Mormonism does a similar work, equating 'living righteously' with following a set of strcitures like not drinking coffee, or adhering to temple ordinances.
What goes in the mouth does not touch the soul, only the body. What is planned by the heart is most definitely spot-on effecting the person. Drunkeness is sinful behavior because of the lowering of soulish inhibitions which help to keep our focus straight not convoluted and weakened to the point of temptations ruling our soul. ('Be not drunk with wine wherein is excess'; NOah's sin is instructive, if one qapplies the lesson Jesus taught regarding 'into the mouth and out through the drought/up from the heart, defilement'.)
Convoluting the Bible to fit a legalistic framework is the exact problem Paul had to deal with in the Judaizers who followed his missionary journeys, seeking to convert Christians into practicing Jews by applying the convoluted dos and don'ts, including circumcision ... and Paul explained what and why circumcision FOR THE CHILDREN OF MOSES.
When grapes a squeezed the liquid that comes out begins to ferment immediately. This is due to the white matter that you see on the outside of the grapes. that is called yeast. Ask any secular chemist. the only way to stop the process is by pasteurization, and this method was not done until Dr. Welch invented the process 1900+ years later.
Does it matter to anything?
You lose sight of the forest because of the trees. Note the significantly common thread throughout those verses - drunkeness. When behavior leads to excess, it becomes sinful. If I were to apply your logic on this say to eating and cite the verses regarding gluttony, etc, the conclusion I would have to come to is that eating is sinful. Also according to your logic, Paul encouraged Timothy to be sinful by telling him to take some wine. For some to separate the levels/degrees of drinking is difficult. I come from an alcholoic family, I personally don’t drink, but do not object to others having a glass of wine at a meal. For you it might represent a spiritual weakness. For me it must be understood in the fuller context.
Amen, MGHinTN.
Your thoughtful response is a good reminder to each of us that legalism can be dangerous.
And there is no verse that shows Jesus drinking grape juice either.
The only verse in the entire scripture which shows Jesus taking anything from a vine product was the vinegar the Romans tricked Him with at the crucifixion. He asked for water and to torment Him further they soaked a sponge with vinegar and lifted it up and tricked Him. When Jesus took that HE BECAME SIN FOR US. He took upon the SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD AT THAT MOMENT!
Not all the verses I printed speak about drunkeness.
It’s not “legalism” to study the Scriptures wisely and learn from them. Some people do not want their preconceived ideas challenged, but actually reading the Scriptures is enlightening, if you approach them with a respectful attitude and prayer.
Jesus never drank wine. Period. There’s a lesson there for anyone who is open to learning it.
“Your approach is ‘modern judaizing’.”
Sorry, hogwash. My approach is to READ THE SCRIPTURES and LEARN FROM THEM.
Your approach is to close your mind because these verses are in contradiction to whatever your own denomination teaches.
No legalism involved. I provided verses from BOTH the Old Testament AND the New Testament. So you are trying to tell me that commandments in the New Testament are “legalism”? God would not agree with you. The verses are there for a reason.
I didn't say all either, but the preponderance did.
It’s not “legalism” to study the Scriptures wisely and learn from them. Some people do not want their preconceived ideas challenged, but actually reading the Scriptures is enlightening, if you approach them with a respectful attitude and prayer.
I wouldn't argue that, nor for that instance did I argue in that way in my previous.
Jesus never drank wine. Period. There’s a lesson there for anyone who is open to learning it.
Well, that would be available for dispute on a number of fronts. However, if you chose to believe that, then go with God.
It’s what the Scripture says. You either believe that, or not.
Serious question: it was suggested that you go to e-sword and look up the Greek translation, Have you done that yet. Because it is very clear that you either don't know what you are talking about or are being intentionally obtuse. You can say it once or a thousand times and you are just as wrong. at the last supper he either drank wine or vinegar, those Are the only two choices.
Seriously, the Textus Receptus has “fruit of the vine.”
Compare those words to “wine”.
They don’t look the same. They don’t sound the same. They are not the same.
There is NO VERSE in the Bible showing Jesus drinking wine. Period.
Fermented wine is dangerous in itself. It is also a picture of sin (Eph.5:18, Jer.51:7, etc.). Messing with a “little” sin almost always leads to BIG sin (Rom.13:14, Gal.5:8).
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