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Molecular Clocks Are Preset to Evolution (the circular nature of evolutionary "dating" methods)
ICR ^ | March 10, 2009 | Brian Thomas

Posted on 03/10/2009 12:44:06 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

Molecular Clocks Are Preset to Evolution

by Brian Thomas, M.S.*

Evolutionary scientists often use results derived from molecular biology dating methods (based on DNA sequence similarities) to bolster their assumptions that some related organisms may have diverged millions of years ago. But like so many other assumption-laden, naturalistic dating techniques, the data is massaged to fit the paradigm instead of having the model adjusted to fit the observed facts.

For example, a recent University of Florida press release stated, “A new University of Florida study based on DNA analysis from living flowering plants shows that the ancestors of most modern trees diversified extremely rapidly 90 million years ago.”1 However, the actual data does not confirm this age, but rather the belief in this age was used to interpret the data.

Increasingly, both creation and evolutionary geneticists are finding that changes to genomes do not occur reliably enough to justify accurate extrapolations to past dates. Mutations seem to occur in hot spots, and their rates vary dramatically depending on the organism, the purposes of particular segments of DNA, and global and cellular environments. In addition to these problems, creation geneticists are recognizing that not all genetic differences arose through mutation—many could have been designed into the first created creatures of each kind.

In cladistic studies, confusion over which group evolved from which is the rule, not the exception.2 In the report cited in the UF press release, a team of researchers tracked a set of specific DNA sequences among “rosids,” which comprise one fourth of all flowering plants. They found that “some rosid clades…do not fall into either [of the families] Fabidae or Malvidae, and their relationships remain unclear.”3 So, how did they overcome the “lack of resolution” of evolutionary relationships to establish a date of divergence based on the DNA similarities? “Rosid fossils selected by co-author Steven Manchester, the museum’s curator of paleobotany, were used to help calibrate that clock by setting minimum ages for member species.”1

This is one more example of the circular nature of evolutionary “dating.” The molecular “clocks” had to be calibrated to fossils. Likewise, radiometric dating is calibrated to accepted ages of fossils, setting up a situation in which each is considered to “prove” the other without reliable outside corroboration. It seems that there is less objective science to back up evolutionary dates than there is sheer belief that those dates must be true.

References

  1. Kanapaux, B. UF study: Rapid burst of flowering plants set stage for other species. University of Florida press release, February 9, 2009.
  2. Thomas, B. Darwin's Evolutionary Tree 'Annihilated.' ICR News. Posted on icr.org February 3, 2009, accessed March 3, 2009.
  3. Wang, H., et al. Rosid radiation and the rapid rise of angiosperm-dominated forests. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Published online before print, February 17, 2009.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: craetion; evolution; intelligentdesign; molecularclock
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To: GodGunsGuts

You know that you’ve punctured their balloon when the evo-groupies jump in with their illogical adhominem attacks on the author. Particularly interesting that they never have any facts, just pure hatred of an author that deflates the evo lies.


21 posted on 03/10/2009 2:42:08 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: Liberty1970

All excellent points. And yes, you are now on the list. Welcome aboard the HMS Creation!


22 posted on 03/10/2009 2:47:09 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Good scientists read about them on FR.

They don’t read the NYTimes. ;)

But you’re right. Even a relatively tiny field like proteomics fills up several phone books a week.


23 posted on 03/10/2009 2:57:24 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)

If you spend several minutes searching, you’ll discover he has his MS in biotechnology.

Don’t know where from, or anything about his undergraduate work.


24 posted on 03/10/2009 2:59:34 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: MEGoody

You would believe what the NYTimes writes about Christians?

I wouldn’t.


25 posted on 03/10/2009 3:00:50 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: editor-surveyor

If someone is going to assert their authority (with an “M.S.”), then some evidence that the authority is relevant is not an “ad hominem” [that’s two words, o wise one] attack. Let’s remember, a Master’s Degree in computer science or in accounting are both commonly denoted as an M.S.


26 posted on 03/10/2009 3:16:25 PM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)

What discipline would you see as relevent?


27 posted on 03/10/2009 3:40:41 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)
"[that’s two words, o wise one]"

The space bar, and the left shift key on this keyboard have "gone on to their reward."

28 posted on 03/10/2009 3:44:50 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Christianity is not so fragile as to not deal with a 4.5 billion year old earth. Man up.

I think these kinds of posts and debates are pointless and ends up nothing but the hijacking of religion and science and used as blunt instruments against each other in some kind of attempt to ridicule the other.

Unproductful at best. Tedious to see it over and over and over again and again and again here.

Pointless.

29 posted on 03/10/2009 3:47:37 PM PDT by Names Ash Housewares (Refusing to kneel before the socialist messiah. 1-20-13 Freedom Day.)
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To: Names Ash Housewares

To each his own. I get unsolicited emails (sometimes multiple emails per day) asking to be included on what has become a quite large unofficial ping list. In case you haven’t noticed, the creation-evolution issue is very important to the Christian Right, which constitutes one of the main pillars of the Reagan Coalition. If the Temple of Darwinistic Materialism wasn’t so hell-bent on maintaining their stranglehold on the ideology of science, not to mention using the courts to enforce their religious dogma in our public schools and government funded science research establishments, this issue would go away overnight. So if you’re not interested in Creation vs. Evolution posts, feel free to steer clear of these threads. In the meantime, those of us who know what’s at stake in this battle will soldier on.

All the best—GGG


30 posted on 03/10/2009 4:04:06 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Cedric

“You Evos dismiss scientific integrity outright with just a wave of your hand!”

There, fixed it for ya.


BINGO! Liberals project alot. It’s what they do.


31 posted on 03/10/2009 5:18:08 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
New Scientist pret' near publishes the main body of the papers they are reporting on ~ think it has something to do with who they think their readers are.

Some popular science publications FORCE researchers to come up with better, more understandable graphics and photos ~ and we ALL benefit from that.

Only problem with New Scientist is they use too many "ou"s to spell words.

32 posted on 03/10/2009 7:24:31 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)

M.S. can mean a variety of things in different academic systems. You need to know where he went to school first.


33 posted on 03/10/2009 7:31:09 PM PDT by muawiyah
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


36 posted on 03/10/2009 8:32:58 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dan7878787

==scientists holding a stranglehold over science?

Both sides are bonafide scientists who disagree over the best interpretation of the exact same evidence. And I must say, after reading many books, paper and articles on both sides, Creation and ID make a much stronger argument than the Evos. Indeed, God’s creation forces us to use the language of design to describe it...not even the Evos can escape this language (try as they might):

“Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” {Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1}


37 posted on 03/10/2009 9:19:27 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Who does ID think made the parasites and related creatures who kill so many humans each year?


38 posted on 03/10/2009 9:47:46 PM PDT by DevNet (What's past is prologue)
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To: DevNet

Since ID does not start with the Bible, I doubt they would be able to say much more than they exist. However, Creationists would argue that they are the product of a fallen world.


39 posted on 03/10/2009 9:51:12 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin); Ha Ha Thats Very Logical; Dan7878787; Old Professer; DevNet

==I keep seeing this “Brian Thomas, M.S.” guy on all of these articles...and since I’m assuming the M.S. doesn’t stand for multiple sclerosis, I’m curious what discipline his Master of Science is in exactly.

Not that it will matter much to most of you, but for the record:

Brian Thomas earned his Master of Science in Biotechnology from Stephen F. Austin State University, TX, in December of 1999. He taught Principles of Biology I and II, and General Chemistry I at Navarro College in Waxahachie, TX from 2003-2005. He also taught Undergraduate Biology, Chemistry, Microbiology and Anatomy Lab at Dallas Baptist University from 2005-2008. Here is his thesis paper:

http://devo.sfasu.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=U2Y6729B43491.129567&profile=sfa&source=~!marquis&view=subscriptionsummary&uri=full=3100001~!846125~!0&ri=1&aspect=basic_search&menu=search&ipp=20&spp=20&staffonly=&term=preparation+of+ligands&index=.GW&uindex=&aspect=basic_search&menu=search&ri=1#focus


40 posted on 03/10/2009 10:06:52 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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