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Not all Indian likenesses are racist
Leader Telegram ^ | 3-4-09

Posted on 03/03/2009 4:40:07 PM PST by SJackson

The issue: A proposal to give the state school superintendent the authority to ban Indian nicknames and logos in schools.

Our view: Education and dialogue are working; local school districts don't need an edict.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the saying goes.

To some degree the same applies to racism.

The issue is the long-standing debate over whether American Indian nicknames, logos and mascots are racist. State Rep. Jim Soletski, D-Green Bay, apparently believes so, and he has proposed a bill to make the state superintendent of public instruction judge and jury with the power to fine school districts he or she determines have offending Indian monikers. The bill calls for fines of up to $1,000 a day for violators, a substantial incentive for districts to conform.

"It's 2009. It's time we put this behind us," Soletski told The Associated Press. "It's the Native Americans' heritage, first and foremost. If they're not feeling honored, then it's time to get rid of it."

Through the years the dialogue this issue has created has been instructive. Did anyone look more ill at ease than former President Carter doing the "Tomahawk Chop" at an Atlanta Braves playoff game some years back?

This discussion has enlightened everyone that, for example, Indian headdresses have spiritual significance. Same with tribal dance. It stands to reason many Indians wouldn't be thrilled to have their children attend a school where fans "whoop" it up while somebody from the pep squad imitates an Indian "warrior" in full costume stomping around to inspire the crowd.

Fortunately, these types of scenes have pretty much disappeared from Wisconsin gymnasiums and football fields. Once folks understood this was as offensive to Indians as someone dressing up as a priest swinging a rosary around would be to Catholics, it came to a halt.

But to say any use of Indian nicknames or logos is racist on its face because someone says so is quite a leap. Menomonie High School is familiar with this debate. Its logo - Menomonie doesn't have a mascot - depicts an Indian in a full-feathered headdress encircled by the words "honor, dignity, strength and pride." The majority in Menomonie apparently do not believe this depiction is racist - to the contrary they see it as a sign of respect. They deeply resent a bureaucrat in Madison, a lawmaker in Green Bay or others who know nothing about them suggesting they are racists.

The easy solution is for school districts to pick some nonhuman symbol for their nicknames and logos and be done with it. But some resist, maybe in part because they don't take kindly to threats or being labeled racists if they don't cave.

In South Dakota, at the behest of Indian leaders, work began more than 60 years ago to carve a likeness of Oglala Lakota leader Crazy Horse into the side of a mountain to honor him and all Indian people. Some apparently feel that Indians can honor Crazy Horse with such a likeness, but white folks shouldn't honor Indians in such a way because it's not their place to do it, even if they do so with respect.

As much as we hate labels, doesn't that seem a little racist?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: americanindian; dotorfeather; mascot; racism
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To: SampleMan

I am glad it was spelled with a C and not a K.


21 posted on 03/03/2009 5:48:40 PM PST by rogator
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To: Redcitizen

In fact I agree with you.

It is the “squeaky wheel” minority here that’s getting all the hoopla.

I just think it’s time for everyone - all of us - to get over this ridiculous fascination with the whole “victim” status thing. It’s played out already.

Years from now, say a century or so, they will look back on our time and say there was hardly a spine amongst the whole damn bunch of us.


22 posted on 03/03/2009 5:51:09 PM PST by djf (I saw a werewolf drinking a Pina Colada at Trader Vic's... and his hair was PERFECT!!)
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To: SJackson

Sure is good to know that all other challenges in WI have been solved so the legislators have time to issue edicts like this.


23 posted on 03/03/2009 6:08:53 PM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: SJackson

Fighting Illini is still their name


24 posted on 03/03/2009 6:13:34 PM PST by dennisw (Archimedes--- Give me a place to stand, and I will move the Earth)
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To: SJackson

I used to make beaded jewelry and wear it around. Then I started getting glared at or yelled at, and called a racist because the pattern I thought was “neat looking” happened to belong to this culture or that culture. I’d learned as a kid that for some reason I wasn’t allowed to wear certain styles, no matter how pretty I thought they were because somebody was always insulted by what I wore. Heck, I started wearing all one color (black) so hopefully no one would be offended, and people still yell at me for THAT.

White people aren’t allowed to be ethnic. Which is too bad, because I think there are some gorgeous things out there. I’m not trying to insult anyone, I’m not trying to lay claim to someone else’s culture, I just like pretty things.


25 posted on 03/03/2009 7:30:27 PM PST by Ellendra (Can't starve us out, and you can't make us run...Country folks CAN survive!!! -Hank Jr.)
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To: dennisw
And my bright ORANGE starter jacket with the Chief logo on the back is always appreciated when I wear it. I alternate that with the Blackhawk jacket (another huge logo on the back) just for a little variety.

Illinois is an Indian word. Chicago is an Indian word. When I lived in Seattle (a variation of Chief Sealth's name) and the locals would complain about the Indian logos I wore there too, I would always have to remind them that I was born in a state with an Indian name, not a state named after a slaveowner. That always separated the people who knew history from the people who have it explained to them.

While we live in Seattle, my daughter (about 12 at the time, picked out a Washington Redskins shirt, because the color scheme was pretty cool and the store didn't have one in her size. That got the locals excited, too. I helps to have a sense of humor.

26 posted on 03/03/2009 7:48:18 PM PST by Bernard (If you always tell the truth, you never have to remember exactly what you said.)
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To: SJackson

BTW when you hear somebody talking about “Native Americans”, you know he’s a politically correct BS-er.

A quick glance at any of their campaign ads for casinos shows that they refer to themselves as Indians in the “Paid for by...” text at the end of the ad.

And that’s the rule not the exception. As one personally explained to me some time ago, if Russia had taken over the USA in WW3 and renamed it West Russia, would you happily start calling yourself a “Native West Russian”?


27 posted on 03/03/2009 7:57:51 PM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: Ellendra
Your creativity should not have been questioned or seen as anything else except that which it was.

You were not copying anything, just making designs that pleased you.

Those that were offended because they thought they had a copyright or patent on the designs you made should have been more mature than they were and appreciated what you had made.

They could have sat down with you and explained that their ancestors made similar patterns.

They should have been honored that the spirits of their ancestors chose you to let them see the beauty of the creations channeled through you. (Ok I made the “spirit” stuff up, but maybe they could have seen it that way.)

I know a very wise old Indian that I am sure would have had no problem with what you did.

Years ago I needed some shoes and had some leather so I made some sandals.

I created the design to be functional and durable, and such that they would stay on my feet securely

Some time later I was on the coast of California and ran into an old leather-worker.

I showed her the sandals that I had designed and made and she told me that it was a classic design from the Greeks many centuries ago.

She also told me that every sandal style had been made and that no new ones could be created using the same materials available years ago.

28 posted on 03/03/2009 8:19:10 PM PST by Syncro (Play by the rules and you're gonna miss all the fun--Jacky Don Tucker (Toby Keith)
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To: SJackson
..."It's the Native Americans' heritage, first and foremost. If they're not feeling honored,..."

....Then Tough $h|+. Grow a thicker skin. Americans are tired of your nonsense. Maybe in your next life your people will be victorious, instead of vanquished.

29 posted on 03/04/2009 8:25:36 AM PST by I Buried My Guns
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To: I Buried My Guns
....Then Tough $h|+. Grow a thicker skin. Americans are tired of your nonsense. Maybe in your next life your people will be victorious, instead of vanquished.

In fairness, frequently it's not Native Americans complaining, in fact they're often on the other side.

30 posted on 03/04/2009 8:41:23 AM PST by SJackson (a tax cut is non-targetedÂ…no guaranteeÂ…theyÂ’re free to invest anywhere that they want, J Kerry)
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To: SampleMan
We had a Navy squadron called the Clansmen. That got even more attention.

I can believe that.

31 posted on 03/04/2009 8:47:06 AM PST by SJackson (a tax cut is non-targetedÂ…no guaranteeÂ…theyÂ’re free to invest anywhere that they want, J Kerry)
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To: SJackson
True dat.

It's the liberal rabblerousers that are the source of this unending and perennial conflict. I just get mad when my tolerance level of crybaby-ism has been reached. I strongly believe that if folks complained less and controlled their lives more, there would be less crime, less sadness, and more personal freedom in this great country.

32 posted on 03/04/2009 8:48:44 AM PST by I Buried My Guns
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