Posted on 03/02/2009 1:23:55 PM PST by icwhatudo
President Obama offered to consider scrapping plans for a missile defense shield in Europe if Russia helps rein in Iran's nuclear program, the Russian newspaper Kommersant reported.
-------snip----
Obama inherited plans to build the system in Poland and the Czech Republic from the Bush administration, but the new administration has equivocated over the project. Though the plans were put in place to deter nations like Iran and North Korea from launching attacks and developing nuclear weapons, Russia has interpreted the planned installation as a threat.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Oh, never mind... I found your polling data. From Pravda:
http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/02-03-2007/87947-Czech-0
Yes but the only russian help in Iran is to build them nuclear plants.
Don’t see how it helps us.
Poll: 70 percent of Czechs oppose U.S. missile defense plan
15.1.2008 - International Herald Tribune
PRAGUE, Czech Republic: Most Czechs continued to oppose plans to place parts of a U.S. missile defense system in the country, according to a poll released Tuesday.
According to a public poll conducted by the CVVM agency, 70 percent of respondents oppose the idea of hosting a missile tracking radar system at a base in a military area near Prague as part of the system.
The government-sponsored agency said a total of 1,056 people aged 15 and older were questioned between Dec 3-10, with 23 percent approving the plan. Seven percent were undecided.
The margin of error for the survey was plus or minus 3 percentage points.
The latest result of the poll conducted by the agency six times last year indicated the highest number of opponents so far. In April and November, 68 percent of respondents were against the missile defense base.
The U.S. is in talks with the Czech government about the missile plans. Washington also wants to place 10 interceptor missiles in Poland as part of a defense shield that U.S. officials say is needed to protect against a possible threat from Iran.
The Czech government has been receptive to the proposal, which has been strongly opposed by Russia.
Opposition parties have demanded a national referendum on the issue.
Source (American): International Herald Tribune, 08.01.2008
You have to be 18 to vote in Czech elections, yet they’re polling 15 year olds. If an American firm did such a thing, they’d be laughed out of business.
How about a poll of grown-ups... maybe one taken after Vlad’s Georgia excursion.
Polish support for missile deal soars
After the invasion of Georgia. Amazing what a little reality can do to those poll numbers.
outstanding
Talk about a weak poll.
In any event, it really is only proving my point...namely that Europe as a whole doesn't see sufficient threat to warrant a missile defense system, which would cover all of Europe, while despite Russian invasions and threats, only 53.5-58% of Poles think it's a good idea...and that's its best showing. Your line of argument here assumes that Russia is the true threat, not Iran, in which case the whole ostensible U.S. position is a lie, and one would rightly expect Russia to react with hostility to this plan. Imagine if Russia put a missile shield in place to protect it's western coast and placed the missiles in say...Venezuela, or Cuba. We would be incredulous, as we were in 1962.
Personally I think the risk of a Russian invasion of eastern Europe is nothing more than hysteria. If Russia makes a move in eastern Europe, it will be economic and political, not military, so a missile defense shield will do no good. Poland is not Georgia. It's an E.U. country, and it's nuclear armed fellow E.U. states can and should provide sufficient deterrent.
Be afraid, very afraid.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach AdonaiBHO has set this country up for an attack from the Prince of Persia !
This could be a good thing.
Missile defense will not work on countries (such as Russia) that can overwhelm a missile defense system by large numbers.
In a conventional war, the European NATO nations should be able to handle Russia. France, Germany, UK and Italy alone have a larger population and defense budget than Russia. The European nations that I care about are in NATO and do not include that questionable democracy with border disputes with Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union that “lobbied” McCain’s advisors. The Ukraine’s populace seems undecided between Russia and the West. As for Central Asia, as long as its resources effect the world market (China will see to that) and al qaeda members get sent to Allah (I pray Obama will see to that), I don’t care what happens there. Afghanistan is among the most corrupt nations in the world, and deserves to fall. Hell, the Pashtuns should be their own separate country.
I would imagine Russia likes being one of the only several countries in the world with nukes, and would like the club to remain exclusive. Russia sells Iran arms and nuclear reactors (among other things) and has much better infiltration of Iran than our CIA. Consequently, Russian sanctions would have a bigger impact than the US, which already sells little to Iran. Russia would also know more sites to bomb than we do. At the UN, the USA, Europe and Russia should be able to get steamroll whatever they want, or at least act like China doesn’t count. I don’t think sanctions will stop Iran, but it should help convince Obama of the necessity of bombing and help lessen the bad PR from a bombing campaign.
If Russia is not helpful, we will go back to putting our missile defense back in Central Europe and pray to Israel to make our problems go away, because Obama won’t.
Maybe Obama will give them back Alaska too?
It's the most recent showing and the most relevant, since it reflects the feeling after a very real, significant event. You found one from over a year ago that included 15 year olds to make your point. I'll take the best showing over the worst one you were able to dig up.
And Old Europe wouldn't see a sufficient threat if it had a ticking timebomb in its lap. And it does.
Your line of argument here assumes that Russia is the true threat, not Iran, in which case the whole ostensible U.S. position is a lie
My argument does no such thing. I didn't dismiss Iran at all. Both threats can be, and are, very real.
one would rightly expect Russia to react with hostility to this plan. Imagine if Russia put a missile shield in place to protect it's western coast and placed the missiles in say...Venezuela, or Cuba. We would be incredulous, as we were in 1962.
This comparison only holds true if the United States had invaded and occupied Cuba and Venezuela (for 40 and 20 years, respectively) under the most repressive, brutal totalitarian reign of terror modern history had ever seen. Since the U.S. has never done anything of the sort, the comparison is frivolous and disingenuous.
But one would rightly expect the Russians to react with hostility... because it is their nature. That's why their old occupied-territories need our missiles to ensure their continuing freedom. Because the bastards haven't changed, and they're still right next door.
Personally I think the risk of a Russian invasion of eastern Europe is nothing more than hysteria. If Russia makes a move in eastern Europe, it will be economic and political, not military, so a missile defense shield will do no good.
"If Russia makes a move, it will be..." -- You say that with such certainty. Do you know something we don't know? Has Russia learned its lesson and committed itself to non-violent Marxist revolution... sort of like Billy Ayers?
Marxists live for carnage and mayhem. Everything they do is a means to that end. There are a number of ways the Reds can achieve their goals in Poland and the Czech Republic (they want them back)... when we abandon the missile shield, they'll be one more.
Poland is not Georgia. It's an E.U. country, and it's nuclear armed fellow E.U. states can and should provide sufficient deterrent.
Maybe they can, maybe they should, but they don't. If the E.U. is the only thing standing between Russia and Poland or the Czechs, the E.U. will politely step aside before confronting the Bear militarily.
He was great at pillorying Carterite stupidity and moral flaccidity.
Ah, yes. Two of those with a filling Central European meal, and you'll remain comfortably seated for a while.
</voice of experience>
Screw the 'Rats, we need to step up and remember our friends. That's what real leadership is. That's what people with testicles do.
Actually, it would be a lot harder to do it further downrange: the vehicle(s) would be much higher and travelling much faster.
The sooner you target them the better. Boost phase being the best, so having a facility in Turkey would be very valuable. There may be a political reason we can't locate there.
His parents and teachers were Communists. That tell you anything?
He's an authentic "red-diaper baby". His mother was a Communist in everything but name. His father was an actual Communist. His mentor in high school was a Communist pederast, and his bachelor's degree was granted by Columbia University, denounced 60 years ago as a hotbed of Communists and active ever since as a Red fortress in midtown Manhattan. He met William Ayers there, too.
Our problem is a lot worse than having a "socialist" in the White House. I wish we had a mere "socialist" in the White House.
You’re totally and completely wrong. The interceptors in Poland are for the defense of the USA, not Europe. The ability to shoot down a missile flying over Poland is in US interests, not in Poland’s. The fact they are willing to have radioactive debris rained all over their country in order to protect the USA says a lot.
Well, if your point is accurate, and we need anything even approaching 5,000 miles to down an incoming missile, then having missiles in Poland would be pointless for the Poles, or the rest of Europe. No?
There is no reason to allow a missile to approach our shores if we can shoot it down before it comes anywhere near us.
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