Legalize, Tax Marijuana? (Libertarians Say Yes)

GLENN BECK, HOST: Marijuana brownies, anyone? This is the worst — the people in our green room, I'm happy to say it's clear they've never been high.

I'm going to ask you what's wrong with this picture. Chicago is trying to fix $50 million budget — their budget gap by taxing car rentals in suburban areas. And now, California is talking about legalizing marijuana and taxing marijuana to solve their budget problems.

BECK: Fourteen years ago. And is it true that you quit working with NORML because they were stoned all the time and that's all they really wanted to do was get high? They weren't serious about changing the laws?

KAMPIA: And the reason that — the reason that I left and started up the Marijuana Policy Project because I wanted to focus almost exclusively on lobbying and ballot initiatives.

BECK: OK. So, tell me because — look, I'm a libertarian. You want to legalize marijuana; you want to legalize drugs — that's fine.

That is one of the biggest pantloads I have had the misfortune to gaze on in a VERY long time. It’s a bunch of bullbleep a mile wide and a mile deep.

Things were NOT all hunky-dory in the late 19th-early 20th centuries any more than they were in the late 17th/early 18th centuries or earlier or later. NO AGE has been any more or less full of hypocritical piety than any other. And today is no different. It’s that the OPPONENTS of Christianity and Judaism are more vocal about it and have THEIR friends in high places now, that is ALL. The “Christian” control freaks (teetotalers, etc.) had THEIR “friends at court” and set one hellaciously bad precedent: If you want to control others lives in the name of your version of “morality,” get FedGov to do your dirty work. You can see how well that worked with what we face today. Yet you two idiots want more of the same, just dealing with YOUR pet peeves. Get a CLUE, sunshine, THAT’S what the Obamites have done and are doing to us... and the teetotalers are the ones who set the precedent.

You two haven’t the faintest idea what you are talking about, but don’t let that keep you from calling for more government... what am I saying? I KNOW it won’t stop you.

There is no way to compare the two. However, you are still suffering under the delusion that the term, War on Terror, means something. It does not. Who IS “Terror”? Where does he reside? Terrorism is a TACTIC, not an enemy. So I can’t address that until you define your terms and tell me who the enemy actually is... To me it is a bunch of Islamo-nazis who deserve extermination.

The WO(s)D, on the other hand, is a direct assault on the citizenry and Constitution of the United States of America. Nothing less. And YOU are one of those moral reprobates who believes in tearing down the Republic in the name of some nebulous “good,” which you can’t even define. Is it “Morality?” No, it can’t be, for morality is a PERSONAL, voluntary thing. Morality cannot be forced upon another because if you try, you stop being moral. It’s not even BIBLICAL, for you cannot point out anywhere that Jesus (presuming you claim to be a Christian) said that His followers should GET A LAW PASSED to outlaw “sinful” behavior, because THAT doesn’t exist, either. In point of fact, He said we should go forth and be witnesses of Him to those around us, not accusers and “morality cops.”

So what IS the WO(S)D? Besides an assault by government and its cheerleaders, like you and others on this board, on the American People and our Contract that allows government to exist in the first place, I mean.

Oh, and you and Dougy are anything BUT conservative, if by that term one means someone who wants to conserve the Constitution and the Republic created thereby. Because it’s painfully obvious that, with each of the excesses of the war on some drugs, the Constitution is further eroded and the Republic is turned more and more to where the Roman Republic was before it became the Roman Empire.

And it’s not MORAL, because MORALITY, a MORAL CODE, must be voluntarily accepted and adhered to, else it is nothing but more coercion and compulsion. Morality is how you behave when NO ONE ELSE is looking. What YOU are calling for is more statist compulsion and when you want more statism, what does that make you? A STATIST. A big government junkie. Someone normal folks shun and abjure. A moral reprobate.

And note well that I do not EVER insult my younger brothers and sisters in the services. YOU DO, by daring to compare your worthless self to them in any way, shape or form.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. — John Quincy Adams

With this being the case, perhaps you can tell me what is so moral about marijuana?

I retract that question. You are a liberal. I don’t want to hear any of your attacks on moral convervatism.

But maybe I do want to hear more about your hypocricy. I’m assuming by now - as you have read the many, many replies - you realize that it is HYPOCRITICAL for Libertarians to argue for the legalization of dope which naturally in turn leads to taxing ths nasty stuff (like tobacco, alcohol and gambling).

And higher taxes leads to bigger government. Is that really what you libs want?

Well, since I am not a Libertarian, I can’t speak for them, but my personal position has long been that it would be sufficient to repeal the drug laws (and gun laws), throw every single drug and gun warrior in prison for life and let it go at that.

If you want a moral society, sunshine, YOU need to get out and start preaching morality. DO NOT try to get laws passed, because it doesn’t work in the first place and secondly, people like me are NOT going to take kindly to jackasses like you shredding the Constitution because YOU’RE on a parade. It’s painfully obvious that you “moral conservatives,” whatever that means, are way too desirous of controlling OTHERS’ LIVES, which makes you as bad as any Obamite. Nor is it the way of GOD, either. So you have ZERO justification for your anti-Constitution behavior. If you want morality, PREACH morality. DO YOUR GOD-GIVEN JOB YOURSELF. DON”T do the Liberal thing and try to get government to do it for you.

(Oh, and there’s nothing either moral or IMMORAL about using or refraining from using recreational substances. The “morality” is mostly all in YOUR head... and possible sinfulness if a Christian should OVERINDULGE in something and lose full control of his or her faculties. But, according to the Apostle Paul, NOT in the normal usage of something. So get over yourself, sunshine, you have NOT been appointed ANYONE’S moral arbiter... and it ain’t likely to ever happen, either.)

Oh, and you and Dougy are anything BUT conservative, if by that term one means someone who wants to conserve the Constitution and the Republic created thereby.

Divorcing morality from the constitution, the republic and conservationism is a relatively new idea. Do I really have to quote the founding fathers views on religion, morality and the constitution or would you like to do the research yourself?

Because it’s painfully obvious that, with each of the excesses of the war on some drugs, the Constitution is further eroded and the Republic is turned more and more to where the Roman Republic was before it became the Roman Empire.

Please spare me the melodrama. Liberals care for the constitution like most people care about toilet paper. And if you're not going to look at the religious and moral context then the constitution can be used to justify every evil action under the sun.

True and false.

What YOU are calling for is more statist compulsion and when you want more statism, what does that make you? A STATIST. A big government junkie. Someone normal folks shun and abjure. A moral reprobate.

Ah no. It means that we want a safe environment to live our lives. I don't want stoners hanging around on my sidewalk smoking dope while my kids are playing in my yard. I don't want hookers walking up and down the road plying their wares while I'm walking my dog. Why do you believe that moral and righteous people HAVE to put up with your lack or morality? Who died and made your worldview the acceptable one?

No, it can’t be, for morality is a PERSONAL, voluntary thing.

That's what moral relativists like yourself have made it. But all morality, all right and wrong, originates from God.

Morality cannot be forced upon another because if you try, you stop being moral.

Again, nonsense. Even non-Godly societies recognize that failure to provide some type of moral law for it's citizens results in chaos and anarchy.

It’s not even BIBLICAL, for you cannot point out anywhere that Jesus (presuming you claim to be a Christian) said that His followers should GET A LAW PASSED to outlaw “sinful” behavior, because THAT doesn’t exist, either.

It's clear that you don't know scripture well enough to present a legible case against it.

The pre-incarnate Christ created his nation of Israel and setup up a system of laws. Many of these laws defined crimes of what we today would call "morality". There were criminal and civil penalties for violating them. Read Leviticus for starters.

The apostle Paul:

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Now I don't know what bible you're reading, but Christ created laws for men. Men are inherently evil, fallen. Not all people are filled with God's spirit. Not all people follow the Lord of the universe. Until they do, laws exist so that people can live in a peaceful environment until it's their time.

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

That's WHY law exists.

You two clowns are either really confused as to what the founders intended for this nation or your evil agenda has designs well beyond this drivel you are spewing.

First of all, MORALITY is not now and has never been a legitimate exercise of GOVERNMENTAL authority. Not in this nation. MORALITY is the proper sphere of FAMILY AND THE CHURCH. Just because the government has done everything in its power to break up the families and emasculate the churches does not justify them in taking over the province of MORALITY. In fact, were I you, I would be screaming to the heavens to get government OUT of these areas altogether.

While it’s obviously true that liberals use the Constitution to wipe their nasty butts with, so do alleged “conservatives” like you. SHOW ME where the Founders had any intent of allowing (especially) the federal government into the arena of behavior control and modification. I want to see chapter and verse. Meantime, I will point you to item ten of the “Bill of Rights,” as well as item nine. Mine trumps anything you might come up with.

There is not and never was any guarantee that you should not be offended by the activities of others. However, the vices you mention in your last paragraph are readily dealt with... LOCAL government is well within its authority to limit PUBLIC activities of the sort you deplore. Then when your neighbor wants to do something of which you don’t approve, he can keep it behind his closed door and you don’t need to be offended. But for you and your ilk to call for government action to BAN that of which you disapprove only highlights your blazing hypocrisy. And it opens the door to just the moral and spiritual situation we have right now, with intact families either in disarray or non-existent, churches weakened or totally emasculated and NO ONE standing up to say that things are WRONG to do... It should NEVER be against the law to use recreational substances, patronize hookers or gamble. However, neither should such be encouraged and it is the FAMILY’S responsibility, together with the church, to see that bad, sinful behavior not be encouraged or indulged. Do you have kids? Did you tell them not to smoke pot because it was wrong or did you threaten them with the law? I would bet that if you sat them down and told them it was wrong from the perspective of the Bible and you, as a God-Fearing father wanted only His best for them, they would take it a LOT better than you telling them you’d sic the law on them, all while sucking down a gin-and-tonic or a beer while you preached at them.

But you do know, don’t you, that YOUR KIND, the busy-bodies, the Mrs. Grundys, are the ones responsible for the liberal control of government in this country today. For YOUR EVIL KIND OPENED THE DOOR TO THIS SORT OF MANIPULATION OF THE CONSTITUTION and the liberals came through it with a vengeance. Your kind said, HANG the Constitution, we want what we want or else, and politicians, being what they are, went along with your program. You have no one to blame but yourselves for the fix we are in as a nation. Liberals do what they do, but had YOU not opened that door, the chains of the Constitution would still bind FedGov and we would yet HAVE strong families and strong churches to counteract the influences of the world.

I say again, you are MORAL REPROBATES, as evil in your way as any obamite, because YOU OPENED THE DOOR that he and his kind came through.

Disclaimer: I have not read this whole thread. I just saw your post on the front page and it caught my interest.

Ok, I read, with great interest, your post. I agree that the gov should not be in the business of legislating morality. Especially not this crowd... but I have a question, if you don’t mind.

If everyone is left to their own devices to do whatever they like in the privacy of their own home.... what happens when things go wrong? I mean, when drug users get screwed up and cannot work. When gamblers lose all their money and their children will become homeless. If the guy who is screwing around with multiple partners gets AIDS or syphilis... what do you think should happen to these ppl? Do you think society should pay to care for them and their families? Or do you believe they should be left to fester in their own makings?

Thanks.
:)

You two clowns are either really confused as to what the founders intended for this nation or your evil agenda has designs well beyond this drivel you are spewing.

I'm certain they didn't intend that our constitution uphold and glorify smoking dope, having abortions and beaming pornography into every home. Do you think our country right now, at this time, is what they envisioned?

First of all, MORALITY is not now and has never been a legitimate exercise of GOVERNMENTAL authority. Not in this nation.

Nonsense. If that were so then why it take nearly 200 years for people to "discover" that banning abortion was unconstitutional? For two hundred years judges, congressman and Presidents all understood and agreed that it was constitutional, within the framework of constitution, to ban abortion. Likewise with laws against homosexuality. Likewise with laws against pornography. It was only when Godless, leftist thought infiltrated and destroyed our judiciary and government officials that it was "discovered" that banning these things was "unconstitutional".

Which was it? Was everyone from the founding up to our modern era just stupid? Or is everyone in our modern area so smart?

It should NEVER be against the law to use recreational substances, patronize hookers or gamble.

As I said, God instituted and established civil and criminal laws for the nation of Israel against these things. He did it for a reason: they're harmful and destructive to people and to society. Who to listen to? You or God? I don't think I have to mention the most famous entity who thought he knew better than God.

Pardon the pun, but what are you smoking? Upholding, CONSERVING, morality and decency is the heart of conservatism. Tearing down and destroying these things is the hallmark of evil and the center of liberalism. You're on the wrong side friend.

Generally, they should be allowed to fester... there should be other family members to take in the kids, if any, but that is their province and not the government’s. If no family were to exist, for whatever reason, then the city or town might step in long enough to get the kids to a safe, PRIVATE shelter which would make long term arrangements. That’s all. Certainly NOTHING like the “system” we currently have.

As far as other consequences to the user, one of two things will happen: He (or she) will learn QUICKLY to be a RESPONSIBLE user lest he find himself without family, friends, home or hope, or else he will fall into that pit and become totally lost to everyone. In which case, he might stumble along until he finally sees his need and seeks help, or he will die a wretched death. That’s it and all.

Thanks for replying.

Mind if I ask you another question...??

I agree with you, btw, that we should not get stuck footing the bill for ppl who abuse themselves. That is the main reason I would not want to see drugs legalized. Personally, I don’t care if someone wants to smoke themselves stupid, I really don’t. But if/when s/he gets addicted to something, I don’t want to have to foot the bill for their prison costs, their rehab... none of it.

Ok, my next question... then I think I am gonna go back and read the whole thread, I am interested :)

If it is no anyone elses business what someone does in the privacy of their own home... what about their neighbor’s right to privacy? I mean, the guy who is having a pot party with loud music, doesn’t care for the upkeep of the home? The guy who has his poker buddies in and out all night long? The gal who decides she is going to turn her apartment into a brothel? What about the other ppl who live in the building/block/town? How do they preserve their right to have peace and quiet and not be disturbed by these ppl who are doing the drugging/gambling/prostituting?

(not saying all ppl who smoke pot, gamble, do the hooker thing are all lazy slobs, just use it for the sake of argument)

Thanks.

“I’m certain they didn’t intend that our constitution uphold and glorify smoking dope, having abortions and beaming pornography into every home. Do you think our country right now, at this time, is what they envisioned?”

I’m sure they didn’t, but since it is certain that a number of the Founders smoked pot, I would have to say that they didn’t intend smoking dope to be a federal CRIME, either. And I’m sure they rightly considered (when they thought about it) that abortion was and would always be considered murder, which is a STATE matter.

Remember that the Founders wanted a VERY LIMITED federal government. Why is it that they ONLY gave original jurisdiction to THREE categories of crime (treason, piracy and counterfeiting)? Why would you suppose they did that? BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WANT WHAT WE HAVE NOW, thanks to you.

“Upholding, CONSERVING, morality and decency is the heart of conservatism. “

Sorry, wrong answer. Conservatism is about protecting and defending the CONSTITUTION FOR THE UNITED STATES and the Republic that was founded by it. MORALITY AND DECENCY are strictly and solely the provinces of the Church and the Families. NOT GOVERNMENT. I should ask what YOU have been smoking to come up with that.

“As I said, God instituted and established civil and criminal laws for the nation of Israel against these things. “

Last time I looked, we are not living in the nation of Israel.

And, just so you know, the oath I took MANY TIMES over the years was to protect and defend the Constitution, so I troubled myself to find out what it was I was protecting... and it turns out that what the Founders wrote and gave us is a far cry from the “living, breathing” document that so many of you have worked to turn it into. There is NO BEND in the Constitution, no room for such things as promoting abortion or prohibiting the use of certain substances. There is NO PROVISION made for 90-plus percent of what FedGov is doing, yet YOUR KIND has helped turn it into the meaningless babble it has become today... and it is my absolute intent to see that document returned to its original status as SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND and to see FedGov shrunk to fit it. I mean to see liberty and the Constitution RESTORED to their proper places and to see the Churches and the families re-empowered to do the jobs that are rightly theirs. So lead, follow, or GET OUT OF THE WAY, but your current activities mirror those that brought us to this current impasse, so my best suggestion is for you to GET OUT OF THE WAY and let the grownups run things. You who are too child-like to be able to resist temptation, well, I guess we can find some nice place where they can medicate you enough to get through your miserable days... But we GROWNUPS, who know how to resist temptation, have our lives to live. There are a lot of folks who need God and His help in their lives, but are driven AWAY from Him by YOUR antics.

LAW exists, in this nation, as founded, to protect the equal rights of all its citizens.

Liberal speak claptrap that has nothing to do with reality.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Nowhere in the constitution does it say law is about "equal rights". The term "equal rights" isn't used. Liberals invented that term to give legitimacy to the perversity they endorse.

The "Blessings of liberty" is an acknowledgment of a moral God. The founders believed that a moral God blessed people with liberty.

The Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Note that this does not say men have "equal rights" as defined by liberalism. Men are endowed by our creator, the founder of morality, with unalienable rights. Rights that can't be given away or transferred. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This means that God creates created man with life. This is a right that that all men have. But this right is conditional in a Godly society. Likewise with liberty. And the pursuit of happiness. The founders understood that governments could limit or take away these rights based on abridging agreed upon laws. Thus they established a fair system, in the constitution, to determine when these rights could be suspended. And they understood that they were creating a MORAL document, a document based in morality, because they acknowledged a JUST creator.

So I don't know where you're getting the notion that law is about "equal rights". This bastardized view of rights has led to where we are now. A nation who's highest ideal is apparently upholding drug use, pornography and abortion.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.