Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Border agents shoot suspected drug smuggler in N.M.
KTAR.COM ^ | February 20th, 2009 @ 8:49am | Associated Press

Posted on 02/20/2009 11:48:03 AM PST by AndrewC

EL PASO, Texas -- U.S. Border Patrol agents have shot a man authorities describe as a suspected drug smuggler in the New Mexico desert west of Santa Teresa. ...

(Excerpt) Read more at ktar.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: New Mexico
KEYWORDS: aliens; borderagents; borderpatrol; drugs; illegalimmigration; ramosandcompean
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-69 next last
To: 1rudeboy
Why are you fixated on evidence tampering? Ramos knew the scene was tampered with, and didn’t report it. What’s the real difference?

First, I did not bring up the "tampering". I was responding. Second, provide proof that Ramos knew of the "tampering". There is not one shred of testimony or evidence that Ramos knew that Compean did anything but follow him. You might as well as assert that Yrigoyen and Mendez didn't report it. They were on the levee.

21 posted on 02/20/2009 12:33:22 PM PST by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

You obviously missed the jury’s verdict after they heard the testimony. And quit the BS about the supervisors. Ramos (a weapons instructor!) and Compean were obligated to inform their superiors what happened, and they didn’t.


22 posted on 02/20/2009 12:33:24 PM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

When Ramos didn’t report the shooting (his or Compean’s), he effectively “tampered” with the evidence. Splitting hairs about it doesn’t help your argument.


23 posted on 02/20/2009 12:35:01 PM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

Yes, and it was tampered with.

Circular argument, friend, lets not.

I”m happy they got a commuted sentence, and now can get on with their lives.

And its my hope we won’t cloud the serious issues of the lack of effective border security, and illegal immigration and its ramifications with tangents like the one here with R&C.

That was then. Its over. Lets focus on now, and tomorrow, where the battle is raging, and will be won or lost on those issues.


24 posted on 02/20/2009 12:52:40 PM PST by Badeye (There are no 'great moments' in Moderate Political History. Only losses.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
You obviously missed the jury’s verdict after they heard the testimony.

No I didn't. I just consider them in the O.J. Simpson jury league.

Yes, Ramos was an instructor, but he was not a lawyer. The supervisor mention is not bullshit. It establishes the severity of the initial chase. The testimony also establishes that at least three other agents were obligated to report the shots. Finally, it was not completely unreasonable to assume that everyone present at the scene knew about the shots. It however was unwise.

25 posted on 02/20/2009 1:00:32 PM PST by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC
No I didn't. I just consider them in the O.J. Simpson jury league.
For that analogy to work, the jury would have had to find reasonable doubt and acquit Ramos and Compean.

Finally, it was not completely unreasonable to assume that everyone present at the scene knew about the shots.
Just somewhere between completely unreasonable and almost brain-dead.

26 posted on 02/20/2009 1:06:25 PM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
When Ramos didn’t report the shooting (his or Compean’s), he effectively “tampered” with the evidence. Splitting hairs about it doesn’t help your argument.

B.S. The convictions on the "tampering" charges were overturned. You are the hair-splitter. Otherwise, three other agents tampered with evidence and every failure to report shots fired by border patrol agents is a criminal offense and not the administrative error that it presently is.

27 posted on 02/20/2009 1:07:19 PM PST by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Badeye
That was then. Its over.

It is not over when you convict your enforcers. Ramos and Compean are not isolated incidents. Other agents have been convicted for doing their jobs. In one case the agent was being attacked by someone using a vehicle. He fired to stop the attack and his round ricocheted and hit a passenger. He was convicted for doing what the agents in the story above were doing. The difference is that an agent was actually hit and the driver was the target and not the vehicle.

28 posted on 02/20/2009 1:12:39 PM PST by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC
The convictions on the tampering were vacated. That doesn't mean that Ramos and Compean did wrong, knew they were doing wrong, and continued to do wrong. They fired their weapons, they picked up their brass, they didn't report what they were supposed to report, and they lied about it. You are the one who is splitting hairs.

Just "doing their jobs," indeed. Excellent job of embarrassing the Border Patrol, guys. Hope you thought about it in prison.

29 posted on 02/20/2009 1:12:59 PM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
For that analogy to work, the jury would have had to find reasonable doubt and acquit Ramos and Compean.

It is not an analogy. It is a rating. The were mistaken in their judgement.

Just somewhere between completely unreasonable and almost brain-dead.

So you consider the failure to report shots a crime and not an administrative problem as the border patrol does!?

30 posted on 02/20/2009 1:15:36 PM PST by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC
So you consider the failure to report shots a crime and not an administrative problem as the border patrol does!?

I find it somewhat amusing that, after all this time, I know what charges sent Ramos and Compean to prison and you do not.

31 posted on 02/20/2009 1:19:27 PM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

“Excellent job of embarrassing the Border Patrol, guys.”

As usual, you speak with such authority and yet don’t know what you’re rambling on about.

[snip]Bonner Wants Investigation Into Attorney Who Convicted Border Patrol Agents
T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council believes an investigation should be launched into how U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton convicted the men and whether he should have given immunity to Osvaldo Aldrete Davila, who was shot by one...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2190016/posts

_______
National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers has been in the forefront to free Ramos/Compean.

http://www.nafbpo.org


32 posted on 02/20/2009 1:27:07 PM PST by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
They fired their weapons, they picked up their brass, they didn't report what they were supposed to report, and they lied about it. You are the one who is splitting hairs.

Again, knowing the facts, you are blatantly lying. Yes they fired their weapons they never denied that. They did not pick up their brass, only Compean picked up part of his brass, Vasquez also picked up some brass. Ramos did not. Ramos and Compean did not explicitly verbally report shots fired to a supervisor, that is true. That is an administrative error. Ramos never lied about the event. His statements on the subject were made in his testimony at the trial. You remain the hair-splitter(and liar).

Just "doing their jobs," indeed. Excellent job of embarrassing the Border Patrol, guys. Hope you thought about it in prison.

I'm not in prison. And, the border patrol(Actually the federal government) doesn't seem to worry much about embarrassment .... Jack Lamar Wolfe, Sipe's attorney in McAllen, Texas, told WND, "Sipe had seven years of his life taken away from him. He went bankrupt, lost his wife and his home, and has been a convicted felon for a long period of that time."
...
In April 2003, the federal district court agreed with Sipe's appeal and granted him a new trial based on assertions that federal prosecutors made misrepresentations and failed to disclose exculpatory evidence.
As in the case of Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, the coyote in Sipe's case was caught in an additional incident of smuggling illegal aliens across the border before the trial began.

33 posted on 02/20/2009 1:28:27 PM PST by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
I know what charges sent Ramos and Compean to prison and you do not.

Besides the fact you are wrong, apparently the reason you feel that you know the charges so well, is that you know so little about the testimony.

34 posted on 02/20/2009 1:30:48 PM PST by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

Here we go again.... can’t be shootin’ those drug-running, Illegal invaders. Civil rights and all...

Will put you in prison...


35 posted on 02/20/2009 1:34:53 PM PST by TheBattman (Pray for our country....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC
Besides the fact you are wrong, apparently the reason you feel that you know the charges so well, is that you know so little about the testimony.

So Ramos and Compean went to prison for violating some administrative guidelines, as you suggest? Did you arrive at that conclusion from your "special" understanding of the testimony? You crack me up. LOL

36 posted on 02/20/2009 1:38:48 PM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

Each case is unique, and I haven’t seen the facts as I have with R&C.

I’ll take your word for it.

Have a good weekend.


37 posted on 02/20/2009 1:38:57 PM PST by Badeye (There are no 'great moments' in Moderate Political History. Only losses.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: pissant

On the bright side, Johnny Sutton works in Texas.


Is Sutton still on the job? I would have guessed he’d have been relieve of his Ferderal Attorney’s position once Obama was sworn in.


38 posted on 02/20/2009 1:39:15 PM PST by deport
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

Border patroman BILL JORDAN told an interesting story from many years ago.

A BP agent shot at a smuggler crossing a small footbridge after the smuggler fired two shots at the BP agent. The smuggler then dropped his pistol in the river and fled back into Mexico.

The bureaucrats in the BP decided to persecute this BP agent. They went to the foot bridge to examine the scene when someone in Mexico started shooting at them. They retired to the courthouse.

That night Bill Jordan went to the footbridge to examine it and while doing so he leaned over and a cheap .22 pistol with two shots fired accidentally fellout of his shirt pocket.
Several days later a magnet was dropped into the river to try and recover any evidence. About four or five cheap .22 pistols with two shots fired were recovered.

Case dismissed.


39 posted on 02/20/2009 1:41:43 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (14. Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
So Ramos and Compean went to prison for violating some administrative guidelines, as you suggest?

No that is apparently what you are asserting. I stated that I considered the jury an O.J. Simpson league jury. They made a faulty decision. You keep overlooking that.

Speaking of special view of testimony, you claim that Ramos tampered with evidence because he knew that Compean picked up brass. You have a r eee a l l y special view.

40 posted on 02/20/2009 1:55:04 PM PST by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-69 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson