THE DEADLY TOLL OF VACCINE HYSTERIA

New York Post ^ | 16 feb 09 | SCOTT GOTTLIEB

[rellimpank]

THE idea that a preservative once used in vaccines is to blame for rising autism rates has just been authoritatively debunked - again. Indeed, some of the key early "evidence" now stands exposed as fake.

Sadly, none of this will kill this myth - because it was never based on good science.

[ladyjane]

It is pretty well documented that you can get a systemic reaction from the flu shot. The RN was probably just repeating something she/he had heard.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

I keep asking for ideas and there are none. They only say what it isn't. It's something, what? If this condition were not getting more prevalent and perhaps was like when I was a child, there wouldn't be the urgency but that is not the case.

To be honest, I never heard of a person who had it until recently and now it's everywhere.

I know of not one person during my childhood who had these kinds of symptoms--not one.

I have wondered if there could be a relationship with difficult births and especially doctors using so many drugs during delivery now? My grandson had a very difficult birth. Coincidence? I have no idea.

[nmh]

Well, whores actually get paid. Many promiscuous young women give away for free what others charge for so “whore” isn't the proper term. The term I think you are looking for is “slut”.

That said, part of how they discovered the relationship between STDs and cervical cancer is that many women in Latin America were not promiscuous yet they still had a very high cervical cancer rate. The problem was that their husbands were promiscuous and were cheating on them. So it's not simply a matter of how you raise your own daughter but who she marries and what he does, too.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It's not my fault that the girls married to promiscuous guys gave them STD’s. Perhaps girls need to SMARTEN UP!
There is no vaccine for being DUMB or STUPID. While “love/lust” can be “blind” hopefully there are INTELLIGENT ADULTS overseeing the STUPID or DUMB girls to guide them in the RIGHT direction.

There really aren't any excuses for having to take these vaccines that are directly related to promiscuity.

So, if you fear your kids have poor judgment in the opposite sex or have resigned yourself to the idea that your daughter or son is a “slut” or a “whore” then by all means load up on ALL the vaccines to “protect” them from themselves.

[netmilsmom]

>>I don’t mean to be preachy about this, but I know dozens of people who are flat out convinced that they can get the flu from the shot. So they don’t get the shot, and they spread the false information, preventing others from getting the shot. And eventually, some of those people are going to catch the real flu and die from it.<<

Well, I’m sure you won’t mind if I believe my doctor over a poster on FR. You seem set in the idea that this cannot happen. My Physician says otherwise.

[nmh]

This really bothers me when I read this on FR.

Catching HPV isn’t like the girl is just sleeping around. What if the boy had ONE encounter with a “loose” girl and brings it to YOUR virgin daughter on her wedding night?

If you don’t believe in the vaccine because you think it’s dangerous, fine. But to make it out that only sluts and whores needs it just stupid.

---

It bothers me too ... .

Especially when the “problem” is directly related to promiscuity. It bothers me that people look for ISOLATED situations to justify getting a slut or a whore vaccine. If you raise your kids properly you won't have to be so overly sensitive or paranoid. I know, today that is too much to ask of “parents”. Most of the time parents are M.I.A. since they are too busy chasing $$$$. Kids and raising them themselves is passed off to others. Yes, VALUES and MORALS DO come into play here. That's another UGLY FACT parents and others don't want to deal with.

If your son or daughter has a dishonest bride or groom ... that isn't my fault. At that stage both should be honest with each other if they are about to be married. If they have doubts on whether or not they are infected or a carrier, I would hope they'd think enough of their future spouse to get checked out. I know ... this is too much to ask. Besides parents don't seem to guide their kids in who they date ... .

Blind trust is what you are looking for. Honesty isn't important ... even if it is a matter of life and death .... yes, I know, there will always be an excuse for people that don't like the fact that what we are discussing is directly related to promiscuity. Yes, infect the one you love ... .
Sometimes I really believe I am on a LIBERAL forum. The excuses people dream up for NOT BEING RESPONSIBLE and defending IRRESPONSIBILITY are awesome. It's no wonder the kids of these IRRESPONSIBLE parents and just like them - IRRESPONSIBLE and quick to BLAME SOMEONE ELSE for their own stupidity or dumbness.

[nmh]

“If you don’t believe in the vaccine because you think it’s dangerous, fine. But to make it out that only sluts and whores needs it just stupid.”

BTW can you tell me another way that someone can get HPV if not from sex?

If you can, then you need to alert the medical profession since it is clearly linked to sex. The more sex you have with different partners the higher the chance that you will get HPV. To suggest otherwise is as you would say, STUPID! So don't be STUPID!

[netmilsmom]

>>Wrong. It is possible to get systemic reactions to a flu shot.<<

Would you please expound on that? I was told the same thing.

[mysterio]

Wrong. It is possible to get systemic reactions to a flu shot.

If you're allergic to the shot. You can't get the flu from the shot.

[mysterio]

If your physician is telling you that you can catch the flu from a flu shot, you need to consider getting a second opinion.

[netmilsmom]

>>I’ve diagnosed in the 15-20 age group. <<

You have the opinion that every girl over puberty is sexually active. I know many who are not. How do I know? Friends on MySpace, personal experience and trust that they tell the truth.

You may see tons of sexually active girls. Why would you see tons that aren’t?

I was a virgin until 34. It is not unreasonable.

[AnAmericanMother]

I think what you're doing here is mistaking anecdotal/experiential observations for evidence or for a statistical trend.

The people that any one person happens to meet doesn't prove anything. When I was growing up in the 60s, I knew two kids who, looking back, clearly were autistic. Their parents were urged, but refused, to institutionalize them. That was a little unusual - most autistic kids were institutionalized in those days. At that time, it was believed to be a psychiatric problem at least in part, created by a 'cold' mother. August Derleth wrote a novel about it, The Boy Who Could Make Himself Disappear.

But the fact that you didn't see these persons in the past but see them now has to do in part with the fact that they aren't 'put away' any more.

The condition is not becoming more prevalent, if you apply the original diagnostic criteria. It's just like ADD -- once you change the criteria, you instantly get more cases. The fact that federal funding is available upon diagnosis also drives the numbers.

So the 'urgency' you describe just isn't there if you look at the actual numbers.

That of course does not mean that patients with serious developmental problems should be ignored or abandoned. But it does them actual harm to get fixated on a theory that has been disproved, because money that could be used to explore alternative causes is being wasted going over the same ground over and over again.

My personal opinion is that the diagnostic criteria need to be reviewed thoroughly and tightened back up. Right now they are so diffuse that many different developmental defects with many different causes (genetic, fetal abnormality, environmental, anoxia, etc.) are lumped together under one diagnosis.

I wouldn't think drugs during delivery would have a lot to do with it (which drugs? most folks have an epidural and sometimes pitocin. I went natural.) I lean towards a genetic predisposition myself, read somewhere there's a very high rate of autism in Silicon Valley, which some attribute to "geek on geek marriages". My husband and I could both be described as geeks, so maybe there's something in it.

[netmilsmom]

>>If your physician is telling you that you can catch the flu from a flu shot, you need to consider getting a second opinion.<<

My doctor told me that I had a reaction.
YOU are saying that he said I had the flu.

GlaxoSmithKline employee?

[mysterio]

I don't work for a pharm company. I work in science, though. The anti-vaccine threads are something I'm interested in because so many people look at vaccines as some evil means to spread disease. And that's a complete mischaracterization.

[netmilsmom]

>>I work in science, though.<<

I’d really rather follow the advice of a physician. Thanks.

As for “the flu”, take a good look at how many people have died of “the flu” with the availablity of antibiotics. While they have no effect on the virus that causes influenza, they have a huge influence on the secondary illnesses that contribute to death from “the flu”.

A healthy person, in a low risk situation (i.e. not working in a hospital, nursing home or daycare) should NOT have to get a flu shot every year. It’s a waste of money.

[ladyjane]

Most of the literature on systemic reactions, adverse effects, and drug interactions require a journal subscription to access it via computer. Some of the information can be found in the literature accompanying the vaccine. The literature basically says that fever, malaise, myalgia and other reactions can occur, usually within 6 to 12 hours and persist for a couple of days. There are some people who should avoid the vaccine, e.g., those taking certain drugs and those who are immunosuppressed.

The topic has been well studied by epidemiologists and other researchers. If you go to the library you might be able to access some government publications, e.g., Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). MMWR 2004;53: 1-40.

I’m not sure why some health care providers make such blanket statements. Maybe they figure the benefits far outweigh the costs - and they probably do for most people.

[Ditter]

You are correct, you can NOT get the flu from a flu shot today but back years ago you did get the flu from a flu shot. My husband used to have to get a flu shot when he was in the Coast Guard in the early 60’s. He would get slightly sick every time. I think that info is still circulating around today and people hear it and won't get the flu shot for fear of getting sick.

I have taken a flu shot every year for many many years and I have NEVER gotten sick from it, neither have I had the flu from another virus that was not included in the vaccine. Just lucky on that last one I guess.

[jalisco555]

I was a virgin until 34. It is not unreasonable.

But it is highly unusual. We need to deal with the fact that most young people are sexually active and treat them accordingly.

[netmilsmom]

>>But it is highly unusual<<

If that’s what you want to believe.
I prefer to believe all the teen girls I know that are NOT sexually active, nor want to be. They respect themselves and let you know it.

Libs take it as a given. You can take it as a given. Fine. But I don’t. Because I’m not going to believe their omission of facts and buy their bs as fact. Many times conservatives roll over and accept their facts when we know differently. Ever met a “Straight Edge”. I know many.

I know of too many virgins. I’m sorry you don’t.

[netmilsmom]

Thank you!

[Question_Assumptions]

No vaccine is 100% successful. A small number of vaccinated people will fail to develop immunity, which is why mass vaccination is so important to provide herd immunity.

This reasoning has some justification when we are dealing with a disease like Polio or Smallpox. Does it really justify mandating vaccines for Chicken Pox? If the very low odds of a vaccinated person dying IF the vaccine fails and IF they catch the disease from an unvaccinated person is so low that if you accept it as reasoning to mandate the behavior of others, then you should accept the same reasoning to mandate all sorts of other behavior from regulating why parents can put their child in a car to whether people can own guns or not.