Are mutations part of the “engine” of evolution?

AiG ^ | February 13, 2009

[GodGunsGuts]

Are mutations part of the “engine” of evolution?

....

Are mutations really the “key to our evolution”? Do mutations provide the fuel for the engine of evolution? In this chapter, we take a close look at mutations to see what they are and what they are not. When we understand genetics and the limits of biological change, we will see how science confirms what the Bible says, “God made the beasts of the earth after their kind” (Genesis 1:25)...

[tpanther]

“It’s the first effect of not believing in God that you lose your common sense, and can’t see things as they are.”

Worth repeating.

[tpanther]

Jumbled tiles in no pattern do not carry information.

Perhaps, or perhaps in some way that you just don't understand.

[GodGunsGuts]

Or as C.S. Lewis would say:

“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”

[GodGunsGuts]

Thought you might be interested in the following:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2184900/posts?page=41#41

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for the ping to this fascinating sidebar on Biblical translations or more specifically, things lost in translation!

The confirmation of true antiquity and faithfulness of translations are among the timely results of the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran - as so many in this generation suffer the full frontal assault of a secular world.

Of course there are a few differences but nowhere near what a non-believer might expect by comparing translations today to those manually written copies carbon dated to around 200 B.C.

Faithfulness is no surprise to those Judeo/Christians who trust God to look after His own words:

Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it. - Jeremiah 1:12

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. - Isaiah 55:11

Moreover, those who have willfully added to or diminished from the words of God have put themselves and others at spiritual risk:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. - Deut 4:2

Nevertheless, I aver that things lost in translation eventually will also work together for the good. Indeed, it is God’s will that some things remain hidden from us:

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. - Romans 8:28

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. – Daniel 12:4

And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. – Revelation 10:4

Awhile back we had a Freeper Research Project exploring what appears to be a Name of God lost in translation, i.e. The Rock.

The Song of Moses – Deuteronomy 32 – in Hebrew says that it is publishing a Name of God and then proclaims the Name, the Rock. Translations directly from the Hebrew (e.g. the King James Version) preserve the Name. Likewise, Hebrew tradition preserves the Name – though not at the same level of the formal Name, YHWH.

However, the Septuagint (Greek translated from Hebrew) evidently did not translate the Name but referred to God generically as God, i.e. “As for God.” And the Vulgate (Latin translated from Greek) lost the Name altogether. So English translations from either of these do not preserve the Name of God, the Rock, as specially announced in the Song of Moses.

Nevertheless, the Name was NOT lost among Christians. We can see the Name directly and indirectly applied to Christ, i.e. that Jesus is God:

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1 Corinthians 10:1-4

Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. – 1 Peter 2:7-8

Likewise, we can see that the Name of God, the Rock, was preserved by tradition in the Church as it was among the Jews, e.g. song, writings, etc.

And interestingly, both preserved the Name even though the first called in each was also called “rock” by God Himself. Or to put it another way, even if any man had the desire to elevate the first in his tradition of belief by either diminishing the Name in religious practice - or intentionally omitting the Name in translation - he would have failed because the words of God are preserved.

Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock [whence] ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit [whence] ye are digged. Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah [that] bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him. – Isaiah 51:1-2

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. – Matt 16:17-18

In sum, man may attempt to add to or diminish from the words of God – he may lose things in translation. He may do this unwittingly or willfully. He may republish the words of God translated with his own bias to make God into a woman or approving of homosexuality or whatever – but no matter what he does, he cannot destroy the words of God.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

The words of God are spirit and life. The words of men are neither spirit nor life.

And His own know the difference:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27

And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. – John 10:4-5

And those who are not His cannot receive His words, even though they physically hear them directly from God:

Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43

To God be the glory!

[Buck W.]

“If you are trying to claim that God is too weak to preserve His Word...”

Please read the post—YOU (or whomever the original poster was) is projecting their weakness of faith.

[Buck W.]

An excellent use of verse from the “Scripture For Any Occasion” series of books and audio cassettes, available from the TV evangelist of your choice. I’m sure that they also provide the printed Bible tracts that are used by people of the defensive, weak-in-faith, Christian persuasion to leave in place of a monetary tip for the hard-working waitresses who serve them for two hours on Sundays after church.

[CottShop]

[[For all the whining about how creationists are making the conservative movement look bad, it doesn’t help when you spread lies about creationists.]]

He/She knows that- they don’t care though- it’s hypocrisy times 1000- but it’s al lthey got really

[[It’s liberals who are on a mission to make creationists look bad to turn people away from conservatism and creationism by misrepresenting them to the general public.]]

Again, it’s all they got- they know hteir hypothesius is in big big trouble, so hteir only recourse is to attack those that bring hte info that exposes the problems with the hypothesis

[[The only unsupportable belief is that creationists *invariably* believe stuff like that. Some stats would be nice. Do you have any to support your misrepresentations of creationists?]]

nope- He/she doesn’t- All they have are petty pat accusaitons picked up fro mwebsites like Talkorigins, or Evc-forums, or Darwin central- hte same websites that claim Christians, Creationists and ID proponents are ‘anti-science’- Those types of arguments are apparently what passes for science over on htose forums. Oh yeah- Fogot hte best one- they call us ‘Creatards’ over htere- as htough somehow childish insults prop up their failing hypothesis of macroevolution.

When htey can’t win with hte facts, they win through intimidation, ridicule, and snobbish self-deciet disguised as ‘real science’

[CottShop]

[[An excellent use of verse from the “Scripture For Any Occasion” series of books and audio cassettes, available from the TV evangelist of your choice. I’m sure that they also provide the printed Bible tracts that are used by people of the defensive, weak-in-faith, Christian persuasion to leave in place of a monetary tip for the hard-working waitresses who serve them for two hours on Sundays after church.]]

Excellent rebutal to the thread’s topic- Nicely put- it addresses every point brought up in a distinct, timely, well thought out manner- Kudos on your ability to stay ontopic

P.S- enjoying science, and looking at the FACTS, and presenting them and exposing Macroevolution for htei lie that it is does not indicate a weakness of faith- but you’re free to pretend that it does- just don’t ask any of us to buy your boloney

[CottShop]

[[Indeed, the article goes on: “a 1980 study published in the magazine Skeptical Inquirer that showed irreligious college students to be by far the most likely to embrace paranormal beliefs, while born-again Christian college students were the least likely.”]]

Allmen didn’t see htis apparently- too busy watchign Ghost Hunters and reading ‘UFO Today’ in secret

[Buck W.]

Please reread all of the posts before opining. The post to which you replied merely duplicates the position of those holding viewpoints opposite to mine: they characterize those of us who can believe that evolution is God’s way as “evo athiest blah blah blah”. I think is is then fair to characterize them as echo-chamber-dwelling, waitress-stiffing, Jesus-on-the-sleeve-wearing, automatons who care more about the words than they do about the faith.

[hosepipe]

I like greek scholar Kenneth Wuest’s opinion on how translation (from greek) should be conducted.. Which is use “as many” english words as necessary to convey the original greek meaning.. Using only one english word hamstrings the greek.. in most/many places...

WHich he did in his own translation of the New Testament.. I say that overlooking that the Holy Spirit is needed to understand ANY scripture reference.. If you take the Holy Spirit Out of the loop whatever you get from "reading" (the bible) or anything is scewed.. With the Holy Spirits help you can get deep spiritual insight from reading say even; "People Magazine"..

Thats Why there are so many "Sheep pens" (John ch 10) instead of one body of christ.. and Why people for thousands of years got the message(of the bible) even though they couldn't read(any language) at all.. They had the Holy Spirit and NO bible at all.. For a thousand years there were NO printing presses.. for people that couldn't read anyway.. in any language..

[CottShop]

My apologies- didn’t recognize the sarcasm in your post- All I can say is Woopsie- I amde a boo boo

[Buck W.]

No problem!

[Alamo-Girl]

If you are under the impression that I have plagiarized others in my post, then you are quite wrong.

[Buck W.]

That’s not what I said.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thats Why there are so many "Sheep pens" (John ch 10) instead of one body of christ.. and Why people for thousands of years got the message(of the bible) even though they couldn't read(any language) at all.. They had the Holy Spirit and NO bible at all.. For a thousand years there were NO printing presses.. for people that couldn't read anyway.. in any language..

Indeed, dear brother in Christ! Nothing can thwart the will of God.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. - I John 2:27

To God be the glory!

[Alamo-Girl]

Then what did you mean (emphasis mine)? An excellent use of verse from the “Scripture For Any Occasion” series of books and audio cassettes, available from the TV evangelist of your choice. I’m sure that they also provide the printed Bible tracts that are used by people of the defensive, weak-in-faith, Christian persuasion to leave in place of a monetary tip for the hard-working waitresses who serve them for two hours on Sundays after church.

[Buck W.]

Point 1: It is sarcasm.
Point 2: Scripture is public domain, so it is impossible to plagarize it. Who cares what your source is (see point 1)?
Point 3: See my post 129.

[Buck W.]

Revised Point 3: Make that post 131!