The United States of Argentina

American Conservative ^ | 2/9/2009

[AfterManyASummer]

Anyone not alarmed by the state of the U.S. economy is not paying attention. As our Dear Leader begins his term, the theory of very big government has the support of an alarmingly broad political consensus. Despite the obvious dangers—devastating inflation and the ruin of the dollar—the United States seems pledged to a debt-funded spending spree of gargantuan proportions.

In opposing this trend, critics face the problem that the perils to which they point sound very theoretical and abstract. Perhaps Zimbabwe prints its currency in multi-trillion units, but that’s a singularly backward African dictatorship: the situation has nothing to do with us. Yet an example closer to home might be more instructive. Unlike Zimbabwe, this story involves a flourishing Western country with a large middle class that nevertheless managed to spend its way into banana-republic status by means very similar to those now being proposed in Washington.

The country in question is Argentina, and even mentioning the name might initially make any comparison seem tenuous. The United States is a superpower with a huge economy. Argentina is a political and economic joke, a global weakling legendary for endemic economic crises. Between them and us, surely, a great gulf is fixed. Yet Argentina did not always have its present meager status, nor did its poverty result from some inherent Latin American affinity for crisis and corruption. A century ago, Argentina was one of the world’s emerging powers, seemingly destined to outpace all but the greatest imperial states. Today it is … Argentina. A national decline on that scale did not just happen: it was the result of decades of struggle and systematic endeavor, led by the nation’s elite. As the nation’s greatest writer, Jorge Luis Borges, once remarked, only generations of statesmanship could have prevented Argentina from becoming a world power.

[AfterManyASummer]

Interesting article.

[elpinta]

Oh yeah!
I lived in that political cesspool, and, well, is not fun.
Coming to a country near 'us' unless we do something...

[familyop]

It’s far worse than the globalist-sponsored media there have been leading the world to believe. Be sure to get to the mention of “Benetton” for a hint on the cause.

Lessons from Argentina’s economic collapse
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/portal/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2079&Itemid=2

[familyop]

It’s far worse than the globalist-sponsored media there have been leading the world to believe. Be sure to get to the mention of “Benetton” for a hint on the cause.

Lessons from Argentina’s economic collapse
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/portal/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2079&Itemid=2

[familyop]

Oops...sorry about the double.

[no-s]

Almost a duplicate of: The United States of Argentina...

[grey_whiskers]

I've seen that thread before. God it was depressing.

[VanShuyten]

There used to be regular posts on FR from a blog of aa Argentine guy giving advice, from personal experience, about how to survive in an economic meltdown. I’ll have to fire up the hard drive on my old PC and see if I’ve still got the URL. At the time I felt sorry for that guy, but now I wish I had paid more attention to what he had to say.

[Rockitz]

I was so sure the US was headed toward an Argentine future, I visited Argentina in 2005 to see for sure what it was like. I spent about two weeks total in BA and another two weeks making a big circuit down the coast and over to the Andes for a few hundred miles and then back to BA. In BA, you couldn't help seeing the tired and hopeless faces of those commuting on the buses and subways back and forth to a job that would never get them more than an apartment in their retirement. The middle class is gone. Those that survived it appears had property and were in debt up to their eyeballs when the currency collapse occurred in 2000. Property that was worth anything was sold in US dollars at Beverly Hills prices. Many wealthy elite from the US have vast real estate holdings in Argentina (Stallone, Turner, Madonna, etc.) that they bought on the cheap when this extended bank holiday occurred.

[Aria]

Gosh....I was there this time last year - in Bariloche and Buenos Aires, and didn’t notice anything particularly negative - well other than the horrid poverty the immigrants live in. The people in BA seemed to take that poverty for granted calling it the normal life of a new immigrant. But other than that there wasn’t anything obviously negative - not like in Mexico where the beggars roam the beaches.

I loved Argentina.

[Aria]

Thanks! Very interesting!

[familyop]

"Gosh....I was there this time last year - in Bariloche and Buenos Aires, and didn’t notice anything particularly negative..."

Did you drive from city to city with much open space between cities?

FerFAL's Argentina forum

I've seen some of the areas outside of tourist cities in Mexico and Central and South America. ...haven't been in Argentina, but the accounts from educated, once-middle-class citizens there are typical of areas outside of tourist cities in some of the other countries to our south.

[tvdog12345]

Fascinating. It seems to be almost too late to get started if you aren’t prepared for what’s coming.

[familyop]

Some of Argentina’s citizens collect paper (trash) in attempts to get enough to eat each night, if that Government program is still going on there.

[Aria]

Actually we flew from Bariloche to BA - and on the way into BA I noticed some high rise building that looked like that housed very poor people. I also noticed that the newly arrived poor basically put mattresses under bridges - that was home.

I wanted to go to Mendoza but heard that it’s dangerous to make that drive.

But just being sort of a high end tourist we didn’t see much obviously wrong.

I really loved it there. Too bad that below the surface there is so much wrong.

[familyop]

"Fascinating. It seems to be almost too late to get started if you aren’t prepared for what’s coming."

If you don't already have a place in a remote area, try to get a cheap lot with enough space for a house, to grow a large garden (or greenhouses) and raise a few animals. There are 35-acre lots for $19,000 in the West that didn't sell all last winter, but they are way off of the power grid and away from phone lines.

Having an attentive conversation with one of the government or business people of countries with squalor to the south of us can be an eye-opener. Ask them about the peasants, and watch their facial expression (or lack of) closely.

[Darwin Fish]

Great article.

[Darwin Fish]

California runs on particularly high taxes, uncontrollable deficits, and overregulation with a vastly swollen bureaucracy while the hegemonic power of organized labor prevents any reform.

Does anyone really think the feds will let CA go under? Too big a state to fail, so our grandchilds money will bail them out. And MD, and and and...

[Darwin Fish]

It seems to be almost too late to get started if you aren’t prepared for what’s coming.

Not too late. Wealth creation is not to be concerned with. Wealth preservation is more important. A box of 22's will be worth a fine meal fairly soon, IMHO.

We will find out soon that guys like Soros simply pulled the trigger, soon, while guys driven by personal faults, like Dodd and Frank, were "useful idiots" that were used. And should be hanged.

[Allegra]

I really loved it there. Too bad that below the surface there is so much wrong.

In 1998 and 1999, I made several trips to Argentina when the company I worked for was building two chemical plants in Bahia Blanca. I was managing all of the import/export issues and the logistics of getting the equipment and materials required to build these plants into the country.

I always had to spend a few days in BA meeting with our customs brokers and people at our offices there. I loved the place, but this was when the peso was still pegged to the dollar. Avenieda Florida was lively and cheerful, the tango places were very busy and every restaurant we went to seemed to be doing brisk business. I saw a few of the poverty-stricken there, but this was before things collapsed.

I hate to think of Argentina losing its middle class.

I hate even more to think that such a thing could happen to my own country.