Posted on 02/07/2009 11:11:19 AM PST by Publius
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Earlier threads:
Our First Freeper Book Club: Atlas Shrugged
FReeper Book Club: Atlas Shrugged, The Theme
FReeper Book Club: Atlas Shrugged, The Chain
FReeper Book Club: Atlas Shrugged, The Top and the Bottom
I know that most are far ahead of this chapter, and many have finished the book with bleary eyes because they couldn’t stop reading. No problem. I’d suggest that those who are ahead of the rest of us read at their own pace, but go back to the chapter under discussion and read it slowly and thoroughly. Rand’s book is thickly textured and worth a second, closer read.
Far be it from me to say this but in the context of this day and age, it is not a case of a dated “Atlas Shrugged” but one of a case where “America Got Punk’d”.
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To new thread-joiners, it’s worth noting that although Ayn Rand was clearly an intelligent and prescient woman, much of her writing bears the hallmarks of 19th century intellectualism; although her writing is superficially opposed to Marx, it is similar in many functional ways.
She reputedly loathed Ronald Reagan and other great conservative leaders, not only communists.
She was a devout atheist, jumping on that bandwagon as many early 20th century intellectuals did.
I am seeing conservatives defend abortion/drugs/porn, or whatever their sin is, by calling themselves a “randian”, and denigrating “social conservatives”. This is folly. No culture has ever survived the destruction of their ethics, whether by calling it “socialism”, or by calling it “randianism”. The end result is the same.
However, she was a clear thinker, and there’s clearly a lot most people could learn by reading her work. But personally I would be aware of potential 19th-century-style atheistic bias.
Not one of the discussion topics, (and also a bit before this term is used in the book, but not a spoiler so....) this week when I read Pres. Obama’s speech in Virginia, he referred to the “National Emergency”, I swear, the blood drained from my face.
National emergencies give government an excuse to violate the Constitution and burst its bounds. As Rahm Emmanuel said, “We wouldn’t want to waste a crisis, would we?”
The chief problems I had with this otherwise delightful and empowering work was it's notable lack of crowds and children. Obviously, the actions of crowds are on display, as is Mob Rule, but you rarely encounter the Mob and almost never are there any children in the book, except in flashbacks to Dagny's youth, etc. This is, indeed, the world of Atlas Shrugged.
While the book has been empowering in the sense that it demonstrates the logic of dementia as a self-defeating process, the Sanctuary of the Disappeared is purely wishful thinking. More often in failed democracies, the Sanctuary of the Disappearados is the quiet peace of the Mass Grave.
As a mataphor of the General Strike and peaceful non-cooperation with Tyranny, it is far more hopeful.
No problems with the context of the book.....I just think there are additional factors here that really couldn’t have been considered here given the extremes to which this entitlement population has gone to recently.
I liked the rich and successful guy who dropped out of the rat race because of such high taxes and the parasites on society. He went someplace and opened a hamburger joint where he made really good hamburgers. - Maybe my husband and I will go somewhere, set up a coffee roaster shop called “JOE’S” and serve coffee, bagels and cream cheese and other snacks, make just enough to eat and clothe ourselves - make the best cup of coffee anywhere around - and live out our days at that. - Right now we’re on a sort of homestead with our own firewood, a garden, fruit trees and bushes, house paid for, some food storage (although it needs upgrading), a well, a woodstove, so it’s kind of hard to think about leaving that self-reliant sort of life. Sigh. We’re in our sixties, husband will soon be eligible to “draw” social security, but really who knows what’s what with that and we don’t even really want to do that anyway; just more at the old sow’s teat.
I'm just looking for a Galt's Gulch to hide in while I run our FReeper Book Club.
What an excellent juxtaposition. What we have here in all of these symbols is power wasted or power wasted away. The glory of a tree, the grandeur of a view, the greatness of a machine, all for naught. In every case, we the reader, are left with a feeling of doom that if these obviously valuable assets are allowed to wane into ruin, what else will this society allow to deteriorate?
Another possible relation would be the character of Doc. A man who is also allowed to go to waste -- he doesn't even bother to order a new typewriter beause he will know it will be worthless. Why bother? Again, as mentioned before, it is indicative of the moral rot - and the vision of the tree slowly rotting from the inside, while still appearing to be strong reminds me sadly of our own nation.
As you can see, in this chapter I'm asking hard questions that require some serious thought and good writing skills. I'm not surprised that reaction to this thread is so slow. But I know this group is capable of that kind of searching thought. This is a band of FReepers that can rise to this challenge. I have faith.
Excellent observation. Now dig deeper. Why is this so? What prompts people to not gave a damn about their jobs? Why is there no fear of retribution from management?
You've uncovered the tip of an iceberg that connects the world of Atlas Shrugged to today's world. Let's throw some sunlight on that iceberg.
IIRC, there were all of two children in Galt’s Gulch, and Dagny’s comment was that they seemed different from children outside of Galt’s Gulch. Their mother explained that as being they were not afraid of what they had being taken from them, they were being raised with reason. Again, this bit relies on my faulty memory. No way I’m going to read that tedious tome again!
You can ask your question from the opposite way — what makes people give a damn about their jobs?
i think people care about their jobs when they have a stake in the outcome, either financially or in a sense of group pride. The attitude that “I do my job but nothing more” that is pervasive in this book and in places today may be indicative of a lack of locus of control - things happen to us, we do not affect things
A true conservative DEMANDS locus of control. By god, we WILL be in charge of our destiny and we will REFUSE to allow events to wash over us.
This is why I love this assignment I've undertaken. FReepers possess an intellectual curiosity lacking in much of the country and have no problem turning a question inside out.
i think people care about their jobs when they have a stake in the outcome, either financially or in a sense of group pride.
I've seen both in one place. I like to ride across the USA via Amtrak. On any given train, I'll run across people who do their best and care about their jobs. At the same time, I'll run across employees who don't care at all.
I've even seen this in the private sector. I've managed people who took their jobs seriously and those who were time servers, all at a place where there was no union protection.
I've noticed that some companies have a corporate culture that is entrepreneurial, while others are bureaucratic. This has always been an indicator (for me) as to what to expect from employees.
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