Posted on 01/22/2009 7:01:08 AM PST by dascallie
The washington Post is a liberal paper. The Washington Times is a conservative paper.
The washington Post is a liberal paper. The Washington Times is a conservative paper.
No thanks. Don’t like birther flavored Kool Aid.
He knows. He was using the /sarcasm tag.
My bad.
If the original would be made available and inspected by document experts I would probably accept their finding.
If they develop a Warren Report-like finding and methodology, forget it.
Want to know what Kenya has on record.
Want to have the college files inspected.
Want the congress to remove him if fraud is indicated.
If congress would not act, I want the secretary of state of my state to not approve him for the ballot for the next election.
I want history to report the truth as best as it can be determined and not upon a bunch of closed files and people willing to move on because an ignornat electorate voted and the media looked the other way. Or because they feel tainted by others on the same web site who are determined to pursue the truth.
And what do you want?
"While these rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors (the impeachment charges against Clinton), I'll not vote to remove."
Shall is for common people.
That we can agree on.
If congress would not act, I want the secretary of state of my state to not approve him for the ballot for the next election.
I don't think that would happen, but then I would not oppose the effort.
And what do you want?
I want conservatives to focus their efforts on what CAN be done and not chase rainbows. These lawsuits are moot. No court is authorized to remove Obama from power and the idea that "if he is not eligible he is not the president" is on a par with the 9/11 truthers (of which Mr. Berg [who has been referred to on this thread as a "patriot'] is a card carrying member).
Right now there is substantial independent evidence of a US birth. The Birth announcement within a week of the birth in the Honolulu paper, the statement of the nurse who remembers the birth and the statement from the State that the certificate of live birth is authentic. The information that he was born in Kenya is unsubstantiated hearsay. If Kenya produces a birth certificate showing he was born there, then this might change things.
Just remember that the first president of the United States to get a hospital birth Certificate was Jimmy Carter. Ronald Reagan didn't have one. How do we know he wasn't born in Ireland? And, quite frankly, at this point, who cares?
If Reagan was an illegal alien he was still the best president we have had in the last 140 years.
If Obama is a Natural Born Citizen, he is still on track to be the worst president of all time. But he's still "The President".
God help us all.
Sounds like it’s on-the-money P-Marlowe...
I agree with p-marlowe on this one. It’s over so far as the challenge to Obama’s citizenship is concerned.
First, the Constitution does not provide a process or a responsible office or agency for pre-certifying a candidate’s citizenship. It’s simply not there. I’ve looked over and over, but it’s not there. I assume that meant that it was left up to the electors in the EC to make that call or to the voters in the actual election.
Second, Marlowe is right that Obama is duly elected, sworn in, and sitting as the 44th POTUS. Since he owns the House and Senate, you couldn’t remove him with an atomic blast. He’s there to stay until the next election cycle. If you honestly think a Democratic House is going to bring articles of impeachment against a sitting US President, and that a Democrat Senate is going to convict, then I say you’re in a dreamworld. I can’t imagine too many of them secretly hoping for Biden to be POTUS.
Of course, a real one is real. The HI officials did not say and said they could not say whether the one on the internet that was emailed to them was real or not.
Fun and word games, eh.
xzinx - I disagree. To give up fighting a fraudulent thug solely because there is “no controlling legal authority” is giving in to the Stockholm syndrome, imo. Additionally there is some chatter that the suits in DC are giving in due to fear of violence.
He plans the ruination of our country, he and his shadow string pullers. He is not just a regular liberal. He is not what he seems and he and his thugs plan great evil. Elections? He wouldn’t have won this one without massive fraud, illegal money, and the MSM entirely in his thrall. Those things won’t change, and in fact will become more entrenched.
Maybe he’ll be able to stay - maybe not; maybe with enough grassroots effort something may happen.
The government crafted by our forefathers is not what we have today. It’s a mockery of what was their intent. We now have, in effect, a one party oligarchy.
Nope. It is not over. There is a new case coming. It will get out. The issue is not going away. If Obama is shown to be ineligble then endless lawsuits will be signed for any law or EO he passes. No way he will be able to govern.
The military will also know and then there will be real problems. He may be sitting in office but it will almost be indentical to the emperor has no clothes.
Of course not. We don't expect them to be document examiners, and even a document examiner can't authenticate an internet image.
But the Hawaii officials know if it conforms to their documents...
To verify we did indeed have the correct document, we contacted the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records."It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," spokesman Janice Okubo said June 13, 2008, after we e-mailed her our copy.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/13/obamas-birth-certificate/
...and if their records back it up.
"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said in the three paragraph statement.
"No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai'i," the statement concludes.Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?
"Yes," said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. "That's what Dr. Fukino is saying."
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html
The above is another example of word jugglery. This entire thing was hashed out - yet again - on another thread.
The State has made no such statement. Some low level official made a statement to the effect that it looked like one of their forms, but could not, by law verify it's contents. The Director of Health, the department that handles vital statistics has said that there is an official birth certificate on file for Obama, but that doesn't prove he was born in Hawaii as it's possible and desirable to get one even if one is not born in Hawaii.
The birth announce was likely triggered by the filing of the birth registration/certificate, but says nothing about place of birth.It's an indication that there is a birth certificate, but not of it's contents, other than the date.
But there is also information tending to make one doubt that he was born in Hawaii. The indications that the posted Certification of Live Birth is a fake/forgery. The supposed statement of his grandfather's "other" wife that she was there for his birth in Kenya. The statement, which I heard completely in context, of the Ambassador of Kenya to the US tending to indicate that BHO was born in Kenya and that the fact was known to "everyone" in Kenya.
But apart from the place of birth issue, there is the undisputed issue of his father not being a US Citizen, not only at the time of his birth, but ever. A ruling from a Court on whether or not that prohibits him from being considered a "Natural Born Citizen" as the term was understood by those who put that provision in the Constitution would seem appropriate. Citizen at birth may or may not be the same as "Natural born citizen". In point of fact the rules for Citizen at Birth have been changed from time to time by ordinary acts of Congress, which cannot logically change the meaning of Constitutional terms. Whatever "natural born citizen" meant in 1787, it means today. Even the 14th amendment speaks of "citizens", not "natural born citizens".
If the lawsuits do nothing but define the term, they will have served a useful purpose.
The point of the lawsuits is to produce "overwhelmingly convincing evidence." Although some of them only asked that known and undisputed fact, that BHO Jr's father was not a US Citizen at the time of his birth, or ever for that matter, be evaluated against the "Natural Born Citizenship" requirement.
I believe that more than enough evidence exists and any or all of it makes the messiah a prime target for all sorts of blackmail. Like the song says, I see a bad moon risin'.
It says what it says. The "word jugglery" is done by those who don't want to believe it.
What people are doing is trying, through any means possible, to keep alive the *possibility* that the documentation is wrong and Obama *could have* been born somewhere else.
Well that's easy. Doing that you can argue almost anything. Did we land on the moon? No. But there are pictures. Faked. But there is video. Done on a soundstage. But astronmers bounce lasers off a target left on the moon. The astronomers are in on it.
The evidence is that Obama was born in Hawaii. Produce evidence that he was born somewhere else.
Suit yourself.
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