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The Great College Hoax
Forbes ^ | 2009-02-02

Posted on 01/15/2009 10:10:48 AM PST by rabscuttle385

Higher education can be a financial disaster. Especially with the return on degrees down and student loan sharks on the prowl.

BY KATHY KRISTOF

As steadily as ivy creeps up the walls of its well-groomed campuses, the education industrial complex has cultivated the image of college as a sure-fire path to a life of social and economic privilege.

Joel Kellum says he's living proof that the claim is a lie. A 40-year-old Los Angeles resident, Kellum did everything he was supposed to do to get ahead in life. He worked hard as a high schooler, got into the University of Virginia and graduated with a bachelor's degree in history.

Accepted into the California Western School of Law, a private San Diego institution, Kellum couldn't swing the $36,000 in annual tuition with financial aid and part-time work. So he did what friends and professors said was the smart move and took out $60,000 in student loans.

Kellum's law school sweetheart, Jennifer Coultas, did much the same. By the time they graduated in 1995, the couple was $194,000 in debt. They eventually married and each landed a six-figure job. Yet even with Kellum moonlighting, they had to scrounge to come up with $145,000 in loan payments. With interest accruing at up to 12% a year, that whittled away only $21,000 in principal. Their remaining bill: $173,000 and counting.

Kellum and Coultas divorced last year. Each cites their struggle with law school debt as a major source of stress on their marriage. "Two people with this much debt just shouldn't be together," Kellum says.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bankinglist; college; creditbubble; cwsl; debt; financelist; financialcrisis; highereducation; moneylist; studentloans; uva
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To: Publius Valerius
There are a lot of opportunities available to people that graduate from those types of schools that simply aren't there to the person that graduated from the commuter school.

You're absolutely correct. There are professional tiers in America- if you don't go to the "right" schools, there are some doors that will never open for you, no matter how smart or hard-working you might otherwise be.

At base, high-end employers like to play the odds. Not everyone who went to Harvard will make a great employee, but he's more likely to be what your looking for in most situations.

141 posted on 01/15/2009 1:03:48 PM PST by Citizen Blade ("A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy" -Benjamin Disraeli)
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To: Tijeras_Slim
I was just there for the parties and chicks.

Well, at least you had motivaton in some form. ;)
142 posted on 01/15/2009 1:09:44 PM PST by CottonBall
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To: Citizen Blade

Lucky. 9:30-6:30 are pretty much standard working hours for me. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I’ve had to work weekends. I’ve never billed more than 1975 hours. Pay is just a little bit below market.

Definitely lucky


143 posted on 01/15/2009 1:10:30 PM PST by Chickensoup (we owe HUSSEIN & Democrats the exact kind respect & loyalty that they showed us, Bush & Reagan)
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To: jer33 3

Poly Sci - I didn’t think of that one. Makes sense now.

I’m glad you still love it. That’s got to be the best blessing a person can have - enjoying what they do on a day to day basis.

I’m looking for career #3 myself (#1 - was engineering and had too many hand/arm surgeries to keep using the computer. #2 - was teaching. Hated deal with all the libs and incompetence.) I hope I find something I enjoy as much as career #1 and can physically do!


144 posted on 01/15/2009 1:14:12 PM PST by CottonBall
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To: rabscuttle385

Read over the weekend BUMP!


145 posted on 01/15/2009 1:18:28 PM PST by Pagey (B. Hussein Obama has no experience running anything, except his pedestrian mouth.)
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To: CottonBall

College teaching in Engineering should be great (though they to make a career out of it you’d be expected to also reasearch).

If by teaching you mean elementary/middle/high school teaching, then .... UGH.


146 posted on 01/15/2009 1:43:31 PM PST by TennesseeProfessor
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To: vikingd00d
A History degree? Perhaps, if he had studied something useful...

Newt Gingrich's academic claim to fame is his history degree. It is something more persons who aspire to lead this nation need to study. Without knowing history, we keep repeating our mistakes.

147 posted on 01/15/2009 2:30:38 PM PST by Albion Wilde ("Praise and worship" is my alternate lifestyle.)
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To: Publius Valerius

>>It’s not the same degree, though. If a person has an opportunity to get into a “name” school—particularly for post-graduate work—and chooses not to go because of money, that person is being foolish. There are a lot of opportunities available to people that graduate from those types of schools that simply aren’t there to the person that graduated from the commuter school.<<

No. If you do two years at a community college then a local secondary college and your grades are high enough, you get the same opportunities.

You’ve been snowed by the University scam.

I worked on the executive floor of BP American and then an Office Manager for two Psychs and three therapists. On two years of community college and a City University.

You’ve been duped, my friend.


148 posted on 01/15/2009 2:55:36 PM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: TennesseeProfessor

Yes, I did mean high school. And UGH indeed! I made it all of one semester. Schools are indeed dumbed down considerably from when I went to school eons ago.

I thought about teaching in a community college - beginning engineering courses or software. BUT again, lots of typing required for the programming courses. But it ‘might’ be a better crowd than HS. These days in Mexifornia, though, with all the anchor babies going to school on grants, who knows?


149 posted on 01/15/2009 5:40:31 PM PST by CottonBall
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To: RaceBannon

Well, I ended up with two degrees, including a JD and no student loans and am making a reasonably good income although still 30 years out not six figures. My son has a bachelors with no student loans and by choice plays music for a living but has minimal debt and is happy. A lot is life style choice.


150 posted on 01/15/2009 5:59:10 PM PST by Mercat (God doesn't call me to be successful. God calls me to be faithful. Mother Teresa)
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To: CottonBall

I know some community colleges (especially those that act as feeders to a four-year college) would have an engineering programming course. After you develop the course, you may be able to cut the typing by reusing your examples.

Good luck and the third time’s the charm!


151 posted on 01/15/2009 6:08:20 PM PST by TennesseeProfessor
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To: TennesseeProfessor
Good luck and the third time’s the charm!

Thanks - and I forgot that old saying. I'll hope it's true!
152 posted on 01/15/2009 6:47:54 PM PST by CottonBall
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To: netmilsmom
you get the same opportunities.

No, you don't. If you don't believe me, take a look at the folks that are being tapped for positions in the cabinet. Where'd they all go to school? It wasn't the local commuter college. Let's take a look:

Susan Rice (UN): Stanford
Ken Salazar (Interior): Michigan Law
Eric Holder (AG): Columbia
Tim Geithner (Treasury): Dartmouth
Ray LaHood (Transporation): Bradley
Hillary: Wellesley/Yale

The list goes on. If you think you have the same opportunity to ascend to the highest escleon of America having graduated from a commuter school as some of the one that I've listed above, you're living in a dream land.

153 posted on 01/16/2009 4:49:17 AM PST by Publius Valerius
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To: Publius Valerius

>>Where’d they all go to school? It wasn’t the local commuter college. Let’s take a look:<<

I’m talking about regular people here, not exceptions to the rule.

How many cabinet positions are there? Which one do you hold?

Like I said, you have been duped. The normal people, who don’t get above middle management in the country have no difference in a degree from MSU or OSU.

And two years of that at a Community College, saves big bucks.

I did it. And came out with no debt.


154 posted on 01/16/2009 5:57:38 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: netmilsmom
The normal people, who don’t get above middle management in the country have no difference in a degree from MSU or OSU.

Yes, that's exactly right--the normal people. And part of the reason that they are the "normal" people is because of their choice of college. You're right--there's no difference between MSU or OSU. Whatever. But there's a light years of difference between OSU and Middlebury, or Southwest Missouri State and Yale or IUPUI and Washington and Lee. The people that go to the latter schools will have opportunities that simply aren't available to graduates of the former.

An illustration: I remember when I was interviewing for graduate school, and I visited University of Chicago. While I was there, I took a tour with two or three other candidates, and one candidate asked the tour guide whether the school was competitive. He tour guide laughed and said, "dude, this is University of Chicago. You can finish dead last in your class and still land an awesome job." That guy was right--because having U of C on your resume opens doors that UIC won't.

Several years ago, a family friend's son was picking colleges. He was a football player and got offered a scholarship to play football at a few Big Ten schools. He also got offered admission (no athletic scholarship--Ivies don't give them) at Yale, where he would play football.

My friend was debating on the advice to give his son, and I told him it was a no brainer: he could play football at BigTen U and graduate with the same degree as several hundred thousand other people or, he could play football at Yale where his classmates and teammates would be future Presidents, Senators, Ambassadors, and titans of industry. He did end up going to Yale, and he'll have a lifetime of contacts and opportunities the likes he never would have had at State U.

155 posted on 01/16/2009 6:19:33 AM PST by Publius Valerius
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To: Melas

I have some college. Graduated from high school. Now I make ~$70,000. Of course, I work long hours. Working a craft job is the way to go in my opinion. Too many people who can’t work with their hands, results in too few people who can. Meaning that the blue collar worker wins in the end.

BWAHAHAHA!


156 posted on 01/16/2009 7:12:57 AM PST by NotQuiteCricket ("Guns kill people like spoons make people fat.")
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To: Publius Valerius

>>And part of the reason that they are the “normal” people is because of their choice of college. <<

Just keep believing those dreams...


157 posted on 01/16/2009 10:14:26 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: netmilsmom
Go to the Big Name school far away, live in the dorm, eat on your loans and after four years, you have a whopper of a debt. Or do two years at the community college working part time and living with your parents. Then pick a school you can commute to. You come out with the same degree and less debt.

I think it's naive to consider the two the same degree. The truth is that when looked at as a whole, the degrees from the "big name" schools will on average net their recipients much larger paychecks than those who went to commuter schools. There are very few Harvard grads stuck in middle management, slaving away at the same desk until retirement. However, you'll find countless grads from commuter schools who'll never leave the cube farm at any point in their careers. It might be an ugly truth, but it's true none-the-less.

158 posted on 01/16/2009 11:18:45 AM PST by Melas
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To: Melas

It sounds good, but I know from working at BP up on the executive floor, there are many things that get you where you are.

That degree is only a part of it.

TRUST me.


159 posted on 01/16/2009 11:43:13 AM PST by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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Comment #160 Removed by Moderator


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