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Seven Ways (One Effective) To Stop The Rockets (Moshe Arens Backs R&D Alert)
Haaretz ^ | 12/31/2008 | Moshe Arens

Posted on 12/30/2008 5:34:46 PM PST by goldstategop

Now that leaves the only effective alternative - for the Israel Defense Forces to take control of the rocket launching sites in the Gaza Strip. Over 60 years ago, in World War II, the Allies understood that the only way to put a stop to the shelling of London by German V2 rockets was for Allied armies to reach the launching sites in Western Europe.

Much has changed since then, but the rockets are essentially still the same (the Qassams and Grads fortunately have considerably less range than the V2s). So that leaves the job to the IDF ground forces.

Why has it been so difficult for our leaders - civilian and military - to understand this? The prospect of ground forces entering the Gaza Strip is not particularly attractive, especially after we have been told that "we have left the Gaza Strip forever." But nobody has yet found a way of defeating an enemy without invading their territory. Call it occupation or whatever else you like, but that is how wars have always been won, and if we are going to defeat Hamas and stop the rockets from raining on Israeli civilians that is what we will have to do.

"Once there, how are we going to get out?" is the ultimate argument sounded by those who oppose the only move that can attain our declared objective of providing security for Israel's citizens in the south. It is an argument that is based on the presumption that future events can be foretold with certainty; that the IDF, once in the Gaza Strip, will find it impossible to disentangle itself from there; and that Hamas, even after having been defeated, will continue to rule the Gaza Strip. Not very sound reasoning.

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: gaza; groundwar; haaretz; hamas; idf; islam; israel; jihad; moshearens; operationcastlead; wot
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Moshe Arens, a former Defense Minister, is one of the few non-leftists to write for Haaretz. He looks at all the solutions to stop the Hamas' rockets and concludes in the end that only putting boots on the ground - reoccupation and denazification of Gaza will put an end to the menace. This is not what the Left in Israel likes to hear. But there is no alternative. Air power alone cannot eliminate the Hamas threat or bring quiet to the south of Israel.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

1 posted on 12/30/2008 5:34:46 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop
But nobody has yet found a way of defeating an enemy without invading their territory.

Soviet Union.

And yes I am aware of the "incursion" -- don't think that counts.

2 posted on 12/30/2008 5:45:10 PM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: goldstategop
I go and make many friends...or not!!


3 posted on 12/30/2008 5:48:58 PM PST by Colonial Warrior (Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction.)
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To: goldstategop
the Allies understood that the only way to put a stop to the shelling of London by German V2 rockets was for Allied armies to reach the launching sites in Western Europe.

Good parallel. Obvious, but I haven't seen it before.

The problem is the disproportionate response on the part of the allies, like Zbiggy Brzinski said. After years of provocation the Germans were just lobbing a few primitive, undirected rockets into their cities when Eisenhower and his imperialist thugs staged that over-the-top invasion, with millions of gunmen taking over the whole of Western Europe. No doubt about it. The lefties hold the moral high ground on this one.

4 posted on 12/30/2008 5:49:33 PM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: sionnsar
Air power has been greatly overrated by its proponents. Ultimately, you're going to have to enter enemy territory and eliminate the enemy's control over it. That is the only way to win a war and that was always true in the era before air power and I'm not aware of any thing that changes the reality you have to take territory to win a war. I'd love to be shown that dictum no longer applies but I don't think Hamas is going to be cowed by Israeli air strikes. What might work on Westerners has no effect on Islamic fanatics who welcome death.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

5 posted on 12/30/2008 5:51:49 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
The problem is the disproportionate response on the part of the allies, like Zbiggy Brzinski said. After years of provocation the Germans were just lobbing a few primitive, undirected rockets into their cities when Eisenhower and his imperialist thugs staged that over-the-top invasion, with millions of gunmen taking over the whole of Western Europe. No doubt about it. The lefties hold the moral high ground on this one.

LOL!!!!!

6 posted on 12/30/2008 5:54:48 PM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
The Left today believes in unilateral disarmament and appeasement in the face of evil. Neve Gordon certainly does believe Israel should lay down its arms and talk to an enemy sworn to its destruction. The chairman of Ben Gurion University's political science department is a moonbat, leftist extremist and terrorist sympathizer so we know what he really advocates is the extinction of his own country.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

7 posted on 12/30/2008 5:55:50 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
The IDF has to go in there and win the hearts and minds of the Philistines.
Kill them with kindness.
8 posted on 12/30/2008 5:58:44 PM PST by trickyricky
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To: goldstategop
You amazing idiots, why is they hard?

Stop. Feeding. Them.

No border crossings, no aid, no shipments of anything. Blow up the crossings into Egypt, blow up storehouses of anything in Gaza, and let them eat their rockets.

Duh!

We are surrounded by PC morons...

9 posted on 12/30/2008 6:03:24 PM PST by JasonC
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To: goldstategop
Who cares what they love? There is one day's flour left in Gaza. Close all borders, stop all aid. Stop paying and feeding these goons to murder you. Why is this hard? Blow apart their supply facilities of all kinds, and wait three days for the entire population to bolt into Egypt in search of bread.
10 posted on 12/30/2008 6:05:27 PM PST by JasonC
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To: goldstategop

40 years ago it would have been simple. 50,000 foot high altitude pounding. Casualties? That’s the whole point. Eventually, there would be none of those scroungy muslims left.


11 posted on 12/30/2008 6:07:33 PM PST by anton
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To: goldstategop
Air power has been greatly overrated by its proponents.

With all due respect I think you misunderstood my statement or took it further than given: I said nothing about airpower. I merely countered the "no one ever..." claim, and if I am wrong, so be it.

I concur with you that one has to "eliminate the enemy's control." I am not yet convinced that this is impossible without invasion, but my cited example took many decades with a somewhat consistent pressure generally by different parties' presidents.

[Aside: I doubt that the 'non-invasion" approach would have worked with the Nazis, though perhaps they'd have yielded when all their cities and half their population had been put to the torch. (I am glad that was not necessary; one of my early professional mentors was a woman who as a teenager endured Berlin's fall.)]

Israel doesn't have this luxury. She has to win this NOW or likely chalk it up to yet another half-victory that solved nothing. And her choices aren't good; the "surgical" strikes chop off a few hydra heads, but more likely-productive measures are unacceptable to her enemies in the UN, the press and elsewhere.

12 posted on 12/30/2008 6:10:24 PM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: goldstategop
Air power alone cannot eliminate the Hamas threat or bring quiet to the south of Israel.

I disagree. For every rocket attack on Israel, ten rockets should be sent back. This sounds simplistic and probably kills too many innocents due to Hamas hiding around civilians. Trust me, when enough civilians are killed, the remainder will most likely put a stop to Hamas from setting up in their neighborhood. If not, so be it.

13 posted on 12/30/2008 6:13:00 PM PST by umgud (I'm really happy I wasn't aborted)
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To: goldstategop
What they need is a special rapid reaction counterforce. Using modern computerized radar it should be easy to,locate,target, and destroy the sources of the rockets with concentrated artillery barrages and air power.Let the civvies know,if you`re near a source of terrorist fire,you`re dead.If they stay then its their responsibility if they get blown to bits along with the terrorists.
14 posted on 12/30/2008 6:13:34 PM PST by nomad
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To: nomad

If it is anything like Iraq, the rockets are lined up and then fired by some sort of timer, even if only a long fuse. It is amazing how fast an 18 year old can run if he knows counter fire is on the way. In effect, you only wind up pounding dirt.

As Nathaniel Bedford Forrest said “War means fightin. Fightin means killin’.” no way around it.


15 posted on 12/30/2008 6:35:04 PM PST by redlegplanner
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To: goldstategop

Maybe some sort of unmanned combination radar and missile launcher doohickey that would send back a missile for every one it detected heading for Israel.

They would, in effect, be launching the retaliatory missiles themselves.

All they would need to do to permanently stop the missiles from raining down on Gaza is to stop launching at Israel.

Make the retaliation launchers a permanent non-negotiable deterrent.


16 posted on 12/30/2008 6:47:45 PM PST by Bobalu (McCain has been proven to be the rino flop I always thought he was.)
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To: JasonC

bingo.

Admiral Charles Lockwood must be spinning in his grave...


17 posted on 12/30/2008 7:16:18 PM PST by redlegplanner
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To: umgud
Trust me, when enough civilians are killed, the remainder will most likely put a stop to Hamas from setting up in their neighborhood. If not, so be it.

It didn't work on Germany. It didn't work on Japan, or North Korea, or Vietnam, or Iraq. Why do you think it would work on Gaza?

18 posted on 12/30/2008 8:49:17 PM PST by Vietnam Vet From New Mexico (Pray For Our Troops)
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To: anton
40 years ago it would have been simple. 50,000 foot high altitude pounding. Casualties? That’s the whole point. Eventually, there would be none of those scroungy muslims left.

Bingo! Worked on Dresden.

19 posted on 12/30/2008 9:08:05 PM PST by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
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To: Vietnam Vet From New Mexico

You are comparing large areas of land and wars of yesteryear with the very small Gaza Strip. The reason boots will probably be put on the ground is that political correctness precludes indiscriminate force that may kill civilians. BTW, overwhelming force did seem to work in Japan.


20 posted on 12/30/2008 9:24:47 PM PST by umgud (I'm really happy I wasn't aborted)
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