High Speed Rail To Nowhere (Another Useless Willie Green Thread Alert)

Michelle Malkin.com ^ | 12/26/2008 | Michelle Malkin

[goldstategop]

Bay Area officials are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of tens of billions of dollars in tax subsidies for a high-speed rail line from Oakland to Los Angeles. This is so wrong on so many levels. Can anyone say “High-Speed Rail to Nowhere?”

With the economy in recession, California’s plan to ask the federal government for billions of dollars to help build the nation’s first high-speed rail system might seem like wishful thinking rather than a feasible financial strategy.

But transportation officials say that California’s high-speed rail project seems to be on a fast track to a hefty federal contribution - perhaps as much as $15 billion to $20 billion.

That optimism in the face of a dire economic outlook is the product of the priorities of President-elect Barack Obama’s administration; the likelihood of a big federal infrastructure investment; growing concern over climate change; the volatility of gas prices; Californians’ backing of the $10 billion high-speed rail bond measure and strong support for the project from the state’s potent congressional delegation, including Sen. Dianne Feinstein and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

“It seems like the stars are aligned,” said Rod Diridon of San Jose, a member of the High Speed Rail Authority.

Building the San Francisco-to-Los Angeles and Anaheim line that will be the spine of the system will cost between $32.8 billion and $33.6 billion, according to the High Speed Rail Authority’s business report. Extensions built later would cost another $12 billion. In addition to the $10 billion from state bond sales, the authority is counting on $12 billion to $16 billion in federal funds plus $6.5 billion to $7.5 billion in private investment and $2 billion to $3 billion in local contributions.

(link to SFgate article)

Okay, where to begin? It currently costs $49 one-way to fly Southwest from Oakland to Los Angeles. That flight takes about an hour and fifteen minutes. How much ya think it’ll cost to ride the high-speed line from O-town to L.A.? For comparison’s sake, government-funded Amtrak trips from Washington to New York’s Penn Station cost about $133 one-way on the Joe Biden-endorsed Acela (if they’re running). That trip takes about two hours and 45 minutes.

More data for you: It’ll take you about six-seven hours to drive from Oakland to Los Angeles on the I-5– and at current gas prices, it’ll cost you a mere $25 (with a few more bucks if you stop by In-N-Out!)

Bottom line: Who in their right mind would take this high-speed rail line? And why should people in Des Moines and Miami and Chicago pay for California commuters to ride it?

The bureaucrats say it’ll cost $30 billion, plus $12 billion for every extension — which means you should triple the asking price. There’s no need to guess whether this thing will be a money pit. Just look at the Los Angeles MTA black hole.

One last point: Who will get all the vaunted jobs the high-speed rail line boondoggle promises to deliver? Bloated unions.

The more things change…

***

Reader Terry adds: “I don’t know just how much you know about California topography, but the High Speed Train will be doing about 30 mph when it is going over the mountains outside Bakersfield. Someone should do a story on this issue by itself. It is a joke without a punchline.”

[Dick Bachert]

YOUR = YOU’RE (a contraction)

Double DUUUHHHH.

[Old Professer]

Nobody said it was easy...

[RobbyS]

Passenger travel was historically a loss-leader for the railroad companies even in the days where every traveled by train. The high speed will be a
means by which the well-to-do move around. I am just waiting for the private cars to re-appear.

[Enchante]

But you DO have to factor in costs of getting to and from the airport, as you note. Still, it’s hard to see how this thing has any chance to pay for itself — it’ll be a huge boondoggle for the Democrats and their unions.

I’m a fan of rail travel but it has to make sense. I’ve enjoyed high-speed train rides in western Europe and others in may family have enjoyed them in Japan — but what people will pay for, compared to flying between SF and LA, is the big question.

Who pays, and who benefits? The eternal questions of politics.....

[dalereed]

Anyone supporting public transportation belongs in a mental institution!

[Syncro]

Where are they going to get the money?

Here's part of it;

$3 billion in local contributions.

Translation: Every community on the route (and eventually every other county) will raise local taxes and that is where the local "contributions" will come from.

And then with the 200% plus or minus cost overruns, these will be covered by raising the California Sales Tax.

[Dick Bachert]

The same place Paulson’s pals at the banks got it: The feds will PRINT it and give it to them.

With any luck Paulson, Frank, Dodd, Schumer and the rest of these morons will be safely in their graves before inflation drives the price of a cup of coffee to 100 bucks.

If you don’t grasp what’s coming our way, run a search engine for “WEIMAR REPUBLIC.”

Then bend over and kiss your *** goodbye.

[mad_as_he$$]

Agreed, but Acela is a reasonably successful (as passenger rail goes) high speed system. Even with Amtack running it.

Don't get me going on the toonerville trolley in San Jose Kalifornia.

[Popman]

Building the San Francisco-to-Los Angeles and Anaheim line that will be the spine of the system will cost between $32.8 billion and $33.6 billion, according to the High Speed Rail Authority’s business report. Extensions built later would cost another $12 billion

For 45 billion dollars very man, woman and child could rent a limo who wanted to travel from LA to San Fran and back for 20 years and still be ahead.

[seenenuf]

IMHO, you guys are missing the point.
Amtrak, the commuter links and freight are all fighting for track use.
The greenies want to punish people who prefer cars to bikes.
The import/export guys want route for freight from the already built commercial harbor in Ensenada, Mexico, (cheaper port fees) up to the bay area for distribution to all points NE.
The expensive ports costs plus shortage of capacity is the reason. Forget about the costs of a passenger ticket - not the issue. Follow the big money. My interest lay in fact that they want to install a double
tract from Anaheim(along sandy beaches) to San Diego. It will cost a bloody war
with expense of eminent domaine issues, not to mention the NIMBY delays.

[tubebender]

Are you going to start a pool as to what this Pie in the Sky proposal will end up really costing and what year it will (never) be finished.

For the Record... I didn’t vote for this one either...

[tubebender]

They have garbage collection in Watts. Who knew...

[patton]

1) FED monies are usually contingent of the State ponnying up its share, first. CA doesn’t have it, and can’t get it.

2) Given the spate of city/local bankruptcies in CA, that funding doesn’t exist, either.

3) CA is bankrupt, literally. They just don’t know it yet.

4) In sum, this entire fiasco is about like the CEO of GM announcing that he is in the market for a new private jet.

[KevinDavis]

A certain song from the Simpsons is in my head now..

[Carry_Okie]

They will force you onto that train.

Then they will have control of where you go.

Or should I say, whether you can escape?

[dalereed]

“My interest lay in fact that they want to install a double
tract from Anaheim(along sandy beaches) to San Diego. It will cost a bloody war
with expense of eminent domaine issues, not to mention the NIMBY delays.”

They basically have it from San Juan Capistrano to San Diego and can't collect enough fares to pay for it now.

I won't use it and I don't want to have to pay for someone else to use it.

That new Sprinter from Escondido to Oceanside can't get enough fares to even pay for the help to run it let alone the fuel, maintenance, or cost to build it.

[dfwgator]

I will say that the one advantage rail has over planes is that you can access the Internet while on a train as opposed to on a plane. So at least you can be more productive there.

[papasmurf]

We had a better plan, EIGHTEEN YEARS AGO in Adelanto, Ca.

A fully functional MAGLEV to scale was built and operational in the Adelanto City Hall and on display for several years.

A complete "MAGLEV" raised rail system. Clean, quiet, and efficient, 80% less maintenance than conventional rail, and it would have cost us nothing.

It would have had a route that included...

Reno, Nv, Las Vegas, Nv, Adelanto, Ca, Orange County, Long Beach, LA., and maybe San Diego. That was just the first stage. The second stage would have included...Oxnard, Santa Barbara, San Jose, Oakland/San Francisco, Sacramento, and back to Reno.

This was a PRIVATE ENTERPRISE PROJECT! Not one dime of taxpayer money was needed. not one dime!

It would have carried people and freight. BUT, the State turned us down due Environmental Impact reports, and impending lawsuits by VICTORVILLE for control of George Air Force Base.

At the cost of millions of dollars, they (Victorville) finally won, and now George Air base is a ghetto...of course it has "Social Services" programs there.

Here's a link to it.

and another

Or, just google Adelanto maglev

Now, taxpayers are being asked to pay for a bureaucratic nightmare, cobbled together and special interest fueled.

[Enchante]

"3) CA is bankrupt, literally. They just don’t know it yet."

Oh, they know it, everyone in CA knows it.... but the pols are addicts craving their fixes, and they have to be forced to go cold-turkey off their drugs 'cause there's no other way to let them down.......

[patton]

OBTW,

1) The CA State treasurer has announced that CA is broke as of FEB. He is using both optimistic revenue figures, and optimistic cost figures, so they might not make it to mid-FEB.

2) The CA State treasurer has announced that he intends to sell RAWs (revenue anticipation warrents) to raise cash. CA courts have already ruled that this is illegal.

3) The CA State treasurer has announced that he intends to pay bills with IOUs until cash is available (Script). CA courts have already ruled that this is illegal.

4) The CA State Legislature intends to raise taxes without a supermajority. CA courts have already ruled that this is illegal.

Expect a FED takeover of CA by FEB, either in the form of a bailout with severe constraints, or in the form of a federal court takeover of the state.