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Nor anywhere else. Ever. I am tired of being told that women don't have sex drives.

So true. A woman, unless she has some psychological or physical problem, does have a sex drive. While we are wired differently from men, we women think about it, fantasize about it, desire it and look forward to it. We want sex and we want great toe curling orgasms and we want to give the same to our husbands. We just don’t what to be treated like some blowup doll, an inanimate object or some “me soooo hoooorney, love you long time” whore, ready to go at a moment’s notice just because our man as a sudden urge.

There have been times when I was in no condition to have relations with my wife. But I have to tell you, I was driven to anyway. It baffles me to hear women talk about the deed as if it were a chore.

I’m not sure what you mean by “in no condition” but let me surmise a bit here, not that I’m saying this necessarily describes you ; ),. But were you ever (or any of you other guys here, and be honest about it), drunk, hung over, smelly, with bad breath, too tired or incapacitated for any foreplay or afterplay, stopping her in the middle of whatever she happened to be doing at the time and just jumping on her bones doing the deed only to fulfill your needs, then rolling off with out any thoughts of her needs, immediately falling asleep while she gets up and goes back to house work and cooking your meal while you lay there snoring in selfish post-coital bliss?

In a scenario like that it would baffle me not to hear a woman talking about the deed as if it were a chore.

Get a clue guys. It’s not always about you.

I do understand and sympathize with those men whose wives withhold sex. In the case of my nearly 20 year marriage however, it was not me but my husband who had a low and nearly non-existent libido. Believe me it was emotionally painful, frustrating and sometimes humiliating to be constantly rejected except on the rare occasions he was in the mood and it was a contributing factor in our divorce and so I do understand the importance of marital intimacy.

But I find it disturbing that so many men apparently see their wives as nothing more than an orifice in the waiting for their needs alone. With attitudes like that, some of you guys shouldn’t really be all that surprised that she isn’t all that interested anymore.

We just don’t what to be treated like some blowup doll, an inanimate object or some “me soooo hoooorney, love you long time” whore, ready to go at a moment’s notice just because our man as a sudden urge.

If women would wear a yellow construction helmet with a flashing green light on it when it's "time". That would help.

In a scenario like that it would baffle me not to hear a woman talking about the deed as if it were a chore.

"At least he finished his business before the fabric softener need to go in the rinse cycle."

It astonishes me that men (here) think saying, "But I *need* to go to the bathroom!" is going to inspire women to service them.

Quite an indictment of men you just posted....possibly unfairly...you start out making a cogent argument, then jump right off the cliff ( drunk, hung over, smelly, bad breath, etc...)..that's just inane..about the same level as if I complained on behalf of men about the fact that their wives won't shave their legs more often ..

We just don’t what to be treated like...... ready to go at a moment’s notice just because our man as a sudden urge.

It may help to realize that for the most part, men are aroused (visually) differently than women (emotionally), hence the "sudden urges". If women expect men to be aroused emotionally, same as they, they're searching for something that's not there.

We just don’t what to be treated like .... ready to go at a moment’s notice just because our man as a sudden urge.

Why not??? You have to understand guys don't get that. They don't understand why she would not be ready to go. Sure they might claim to understand that by deep down they just see that as an insult to them. They are not sexy enough or macho enough of manly enough or whatever. If they were their woman would fall into their arms like in a Bond movie or something. Realistic? no. But understand that men DO take rejection personally. Maybe not at a conscious level but hit hits them below the ego line.

In a scenario like that it would baffle me not to hear a woman talking about the deed as if it were a chore.

Some women take it as a compliment instead of a chore. They get a lot more intimacy.

Get a clue guys. It’s not always about you.

You are claiming guys are being self centered (and we are) but you just said a massively self centered statement. If women would stop being self centered and start thinking about their man's feelings on occasion. Then they might have a leg to stand on when they want to claim their man should pay attention to their feelings.

Relationships are a two way street. Guys are simple. Our side of the street has far fewer lanes but the lanes we have are a superhighway of hormones. Take away the sex and you are trying to make it a one way street. Nothing is more self centered than that.

Get a clue guys. It’s not always about you.

no, but now and then couldnt it be ???

the disgusting extreme you describe has merits from your perspective, and isnt acceptable in a true partnership as the normal action...

However, dismissing the fact that we are wired differently and that constant 'rejection' causes long term damage [as experienced by you] is risky as well..

we also dont like to be the 'goto guy' for all manner of tasks for which physical strength etc make us the suitable doer of the task...but I do so anyway, and no, its not just to get some later...and those are 'chores'...

LOL I knew a woman who was so sick of feeling like she was nothing more than a place for him to put it.

Her daughter had a doll that could go swimming in the swimming pool due to this little life saver that came with it. It was like a donut. It had a place where you could blow air into it etc. Rather than fill it with air, this woman filled it with warm water. When they went to bed and he made his move, she handed him this donut.

That got the long needed conversation going. Now they are doing great.

Nor anywhere else. Ever. I am tired of being told that women don't have sex drives.

So true. A woman, unless she has some psychological or physical problem, does have a sex drive. While we are wired differently from men, we women think about it, fantasize about it, desire it and look forward to it. We want sex and we want great toe curling orgasms and we want to give the same to our husbands. We just don’t what to be treated like some blowup doll, an inanimate object or some “me soooo hoooorney, love you long time” whore, ready to go at a moment’s notice just because our man as a sudden urge.

Gee, I wonder why it's so difficult for a man to address this issue. There are some women who look for any reason to tell the offending "percieved goon", that it's his fault. You've attempted to do it here, and you've done so again later in your response. Yes, there are times when I have a sudden urge. Can you ladies ever forgive me? Let me tell you something. When my wife comes to me with a sudden urge, she doesn't get turned down. End of story. And BTW, the thought of sceduled sex on Thrusday's at 8:15:25 pm, is about as romantic as a tooth ache.

As for the fantasy that women have, I'm all for it. Often the women gets so busy with work or whatever, and if the guy doesn't initiate "the idea" it just doesn't happen. When this is mentioned he is told that she does to initiate sex. Why don't you remember just last March, about the 25th? I've tried the wait until she's ready routine. Pretty soon a month has gone by. If you mention it, she says something like, "Well, you could have asked." Good grief. So much for some women's desires. And I'll be frank with you. When someone doesn't have interest in this area, it's a massive warning flag if you catch my drift. (BTW, I'm on my second marriage, so this information doesn't apply to my current situation.)

There have been times when I was in no condition to have relations with my wife. But I have to tell you, I was driven to anyway. It baffles me to hear women talk about the deed as if it were a chore.

I’m not sure what you mean by “in no condition” but let me surmise a bit here, not that I’m saying this necessarily describes you ; ),. But were you ever (or any of you other guys here, and be honest about it), drunk, hung over, smelly, with bad breath, too tired or incapacitated for any foreplay or afterplay, stopping her in the middle of whatever she happened to be doing at the time and just jumping on her bones doing the deed only to fulfill your needs, then rolling off with out any thoughts of her needs, immediately falling asleep while she gets up and goes back to house work and cooking your meal while you lay there snoring in selfish post-coital bliss?

Yes. Sure. There have been a few times like that in over 31 years of marriage. Does it happen very often? No. Has it happened in reverse? Well, frankly yes. I somehow found a way to enjoy myself. Once again, good grief. You make it sound like men are a bunch of dirty, drunken, abusive, non-caring louts. BTW, I can't tell you how many times I have heard women talk about getting a guy who's a jock, all sweaty, and ready to go. Boy that tune sure changes once they're married.

Now, you talk of the guy just rolling over and going to sleep. And of course, you're wide awake. I'll bet it never occurred to you that the male does a majority of the work in the long haul. It can be quite draining trying to give out a long period of pleasure for his partner, which ends up with him getting 1/100th of the final bang for the buck. What I do find funny is when the female has to expend energy to obtain her just rewards, all of a sudden she isn't so "wide awake" five minutes after it's all over.

In a scenario like that it would baffle me not to hear a woman talking about the deed as if it were a chore.

Well, I have never in my life thought of making love as a chore. Not once.

Get a clue guys. It’s not always about you.

Oh I think we've got all the clues we need. Some of us try to be understanding. Some of us have waited weeks or more for our spouse to initiate things. So don't come to me with clichés about clues and foreplay and cleanliness. You're barking up the wrong tree.

I do understand and sympathize with those men whose wives withhold sex. In the case of my nearly 20 year marriage however, it was not me but my husband who had a low and nearly non-existent libido. Believe me it was emotionally painful, frustrating and sometimes humiliating to be constantly rejected except on the rare occasions he was in the mood and it was a contributing factor in our divorce and so I do understand the importance of marital intimacy.

Well, I realize that does happen. And where it does, I sympathize with the women who have to deal with it. I guess this is where I should ask you though, since you were making some rather interesting inferences, were you always drunk, filthy from work, smelly and offensive? I doubt you were, but you sure laid it on thick for guys who have this problem. And I might add, I have spend more than ten years in relationships being patient with my partner, hoping they'd get their head cleared, so don't come at me like some uncaring, uncompromising brute. You're way off base.

But I find it disturbing that so many men apparently see their wives as nothing more than an orifice in the waiting for their needs alone. With attitudes like that, some of you guys shouldn’t really be all that surprised that she isn’t all that interested anymore.

You are one sick puppy. The animosity is dripping from your post. All men ask is that when they marry a woman, that the woman remain as desirous and willing to participate in sex as they were when the guy made his decision to marry them. The vast majority of stories I hear out there reflects otherwise. If there is no overwhelming reason, the woman is way off base. As for your reference to 'orifice', it's just a disgusting afront to husbands. Yes we seek relations with our wives. Yes it's sometimes spontanious. And yes, that's exactly what the woman we married seemed to like once upon a time.

This is not a fairy tale. It's a real problem, and it doesn't help to have folks dismiss it as something only male ogres could suffer from.

Sometimes, just sex, without anything else is fine. I don’t get what the big issue is.

Sometimes, I want to make love/have sex, with nothing other than just wanting it. Something, anything, about my husband will turn me on. He could be watching a game or show or eating dinner.

Or all the kids are out of the house at the same time, uncommon, and we both look at each other and race to the bedroom. We could be in the middle of doing something mundane and last kid leaves the house and we realize, we’re alone. YAY.